Joint patrolling is in the best interest of Pakistan.

Say NO to this only
1. If Pakistanis desire for a Taliban style rule in which women and minorities will be treated as third grade citizens, can they oppose this.

2. If you want to see your country competing with Afghan and some African nations to get the ‘Poorest and most dangerous country’ title.

3. If you want see your children taking to terrorism as a source of employment.

One region after other are slowly slipping out of government control and no action plan announced till date. What happens if tomorrow Taliban declares the occupied parts as a separate country ?

I am surprised to see people’s ignorance when they say ‘Terrorists are our brothers ‘ or ‘Dont like to fight against our own citizens’. Terrorists are not friends and well-wishers of any country or community. Pls understad it. If you still take them as your brothers, just ask yourself why your brothers are unleashing death and horror in their own country ?

Pakistan is right to say no to joined operations. And what US and Indians are telling to whole world isn’t true.

America is working on another killing spree like it did in Iraq, I would like to highlight some of the facts below.

1) Islamabad still controls most of Pakistan, Sindh and Punjab provinces with an iron fist.

2) Pakistani police and army control most of NWFP. In so called “separatist” Balochistan there’s only 5% of the total population of Pakistan.

For Washington to believe that a small, rural, Pashtun tribal fighters from FATA NWFP, with no air force, no heavy artillery and no tanks, could take over a Pakistan with a 650,000-strong well-trained army is an absolutely ridiculous notion. (Like they said to whole world about Iraqi nuclear weapons)

And for Washington to believe – as Holbrooke implied recently on his trip to Pakistan – that a few Pashtun tribals and a few expat jihadis from Arab world can take on Western civilization as a whole is also an absolutely ridiculous notion!

Pakistan has received billions of dollars US-aid. I feel that perhaps Pakistani agencies got corrupted by this money and lost will to fight Taliban or other Pakistani enemy. These people have big bank balance in Swiss banks and grab land in Pakistan. They have sent their kids to western countries so they can be safe from Taliban. Poor lower rank soldiers end up getting killed by Taliban. This is the truth. Otherwise how it is possible that armed forces can not defeat few thousands millitants with all their F16s and other modern weaponaries.

‘Yes, Pakistan can’ or ‘no, it can’t’?

It’s surprising to find that anybody who does anything is named as TALIBAN. Media has given government of Pakistan and law enforcing authorities a simple name to escape from the trouble of investigating and bringing the real culprits to justice.

Although, there might exist, let’s for a moment suppose they do, the real Taliban in Pakistan or Afghanistan, they are fighting for their self-interpreted version of Islam. ‘That it should come to this’ is dubious (Hamlet I, ii); they are unlikely to wage a war on a country that is profusely equipped with a weaponry of latest technology and has a trained, in institutions of war sciences, multi dimensional armed force, that too is backed by the governments of the world.

There are more things in heaven and earth…, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. (Hamlet I, v).These more things that are not discussed in/by media hide the key. Sagacious Muslim leaders need to decipher this puzzle. Is America helping Pakistan because it is genuinely wishes to help Pakistan or because it has committed a blunder by opening up the proverbial Pandora’s Box.

Pakistan should weigh all the possible pros and cons without letting in any missile, make its decisions before it says ‘yes, Pakistan can’ or ‘no, it can’t’. Pakistan, Afghanistan, and America need to learn that ‘When sorrows come, they come not single spies, But in battalions (IV, v)

FAZAL ALI BUTT

Taliban seem to be overwhelming Pakistani authorities. Alliance with Americans or anybody else to defeat the enemy within the state is always good idea as long as the so called key victory indicators and approximate time frame is pre-agreed. Whether this info is released public domain is different thing.

Because fact is UN is respecting Pakistani establishment and watching patiently. Mind you this in-action is lot dearer to the world Nations (in terms of lives,faith and money)

The Americans have failed to root out Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, so what they will do so different in FATA and other Areas of Pakistan to root out TAliban and Extremists? Have they any new strategy in fighting the so called terror network in PAkistan? And by the way, why should USA not trust PAkistani Secuirty Agencies when its help has been recognized and aoppreciated in the start of war in Afghanistan and apprehending of hundreds of TAliban and Al-Qaeda figures.

And last but not the least, any joint operation in this country will erode any credibility of the armed forces that has been left in days of Musharraf regime. it will further aggravate the situation. And very informd of the sentiments against USA and NATO, i am sure American forces will not be able to control this country from a downward spiral of violance once they enter it.

Dear US, just concentrate on Afghanistan. Dont dig another grave for your hyper power.

Pakistan government writ in FATA and adjoining areas is practically nil. Talibans in these areas are now extending their terror and influence in to settled areas. In spite of accepting Nizam e Adal in Malakund Division by government, Taliban terrorist are continuing suicide bombing in NWFP(latest in Char sadda). Talibans are cancer, should be eliminated at any cost.In areas where their is no government writ, there is no harm in taking American help in the form of joint operation against Talibans.Talibans dont respect Pakistan sovereignty in these areas, if America helps us in establishing Pakistan writ in these areas we should be thankful to them
M. N. Syed, California.

I would have thought that Pakistan should be grateful for whatever help they can get from the international community (including the USA) in defeating the Taliban. I know that Pakistani’s are very proud people (and you can defend yourselves) however, it appears to me that you are not having much luck at the moment defending your own territory from these bigots. As much as you may dislike the USA, the other option (defeat by the Taliban) is a much worse proposition.

As far as arguments concerning these “conspiracy theories” about wanting your resources are concerned, what an absolute joke. The West couldn’t give a damn. You may truly believe that Pakistan is the “greatest nation on the planet” however, truth be known, most Americans would probably be lucky to point Pakistan out on the map.

I’m in Australia, and I can assure you, there would be very few people who are even the least bit interested if you actually want to be “ruled” by the Taliban or not – that is your choice (but I suspect the overwhelming majority of Pakistani people don’t). What concerns us is that our own citizens have been killed by these fanatics for simply living their own lives 10,000 miles away because someone half way across the planet decides that we are “kaffirs”.

Trust me, we would be more than happy to leave you alone in peace (or subjugation, if the Taliban win) however, I doubt these blokes are likely to stop at the border somehow!

Please don’t regard an offer of help as some matter of national disgrace – I’m pretty sure that we should all be on the same side – shouldn’t we?

the first time around.. i said.. no to joint operations.. things have changed.. changed dramatically.. i say bring the us army in.. they might deal with the talibans. pakistan was created as a moderate islamic republic and that is what we want
EMPHASIS ON THE WORD MODERATE

First we spread our kushkols for the money. Then we try to protect these Talibanis by calling them our brothers and sisters. Then we rely on Americans for our life line. Then the politicians tell ordinary poor Pakistanis how they are standing up to Americans when in fact they allow the drone attacks. When will Pakistanis understand that they cannot survive without aid from America and beggars cannot be choosers. If America wants to come into Pakistan it will and Inshallah that day is close when someone (either US or someone else) will come in and rid this country of all the Talibans and all the people who call these terrorists their brothers and sisters. Hopefully now people understand that by shouting Democracy you don’t get Democracy. You get a mess…..

We spend all our energy and time in denying and arguing with the international community.
It is like asking the neigbours to just lecture us when our house is on big fire and we are also not prepared to act! Others are showing urgency and being proactive only not to allow the fire to spread to them.
When will we understand this.

Some elements are using Pakistan to plan and train for attacks on targets outside its border.

While it is completely up to Pakistan and Pakistanis how they want to deal with attacks inside their country, other countries have a right to ask for measures against the future attack against them from Pakistan.

If Pakistan doesn’t want foreign assistance, it is fine. But they should act convincingly to stop further attacks. This has not happened.

It is ridiculous to expect that these countries will accept the status quo.

Also, it is a loss of credibility for Pakistan when it says that it will act only if country’s outstanding problems with Afghanistan and India are resolved.

It shows allowing terrorists attacks by non-state actors in these counties from Pakistan have a strategic intent and tacit approval of the defense establishment.

So the offer for joint operation is made to help Pakistan in the back ground of its failure to act against the elements who plans attack on forign targets from Pakistan.

If the situation changes, I think Americans have no reason to get involved in pkaistn’s fight against its enemies through drone strikes or joint operations.

Pakistan should be with US. Its time to show that Pakistan its realy sincere in its effort to eradicate extremism from its soil.

Pakistan is right to say no to joined operations. But time has come we clean our acts and control unruled areas of FATA and NWFP which in true sense have never been under our full control. Most of the Criminals from whole Pakistan used to take sanctuary in FATA to avoid criminal prosecutions from various parts of Pakistan.

Pakistan is also right to convey anger to visiting US officials about ignoring Pakistani sensitives in the region and tying the aid to certain clauses in the initial draft presented to US Senate. Yes, people and government of pakistan should understand there’s no free lunch but US has completely ignored Pakistan’s major concerns especially in Afghanistan where our big neighbor has invested more 1 Billion US Dollars since 2002.

I’d say that it is a bold step by Mr. Gillani. If not really, but it is enough to show the Americans that we had had enough of their dictation, now we can also take decisions ourselves.

It is a good decision also because I think the Americans want to sneak into the Pakistani borders inch by inch and finally towards the capital….’an approved capturing’….and Pakistan will face the same fate as Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think that will be America’s plan now. Wherever they go, they attack for resources in the cover of war-on-terrorism. Take the example of Iraq, oil and Afghanistan, for the ultimate strategic position in South-East Asia, perfect to launch an attack on either Iran or Pakistan. For Pakistan they are after the resourceful Baluchistan. Where gold, gas, coal and other minerals are in abundance. Moreover the favourable conditions for building ports at its coast are also worth-mentioning.

The recent wailing by the Americans at our unsafe nukes can also be linked up to their desire to have Pakistan under their control. They want to attack Pakistan in order to eliminate the extremists, but in reality they are also after the nuclear warheads of the only Muslim atomic power.

Recent reports also suggest that Beitullah Masud is also an agent of the Americans. Claiming responsibility for every incident in a frenzy. May it be the Manavan Police Academy shootout or the overseas shooting in a U.S market. All of this for one purpose to tell the international world that Pakistan is an extremist state, in the light of Pakistan’s reluctance on ‘a joint-operation’, its protest over drone attacks etc.

In the end, i’d like to say that Pakistani armed forces are equally capable of carrying out an operation against the terrorist groups and there is no such need for a U.S assistance.

People,
America does not only issue blank checks. Remember “Bomb you back to stone ages”? So, don’t celebrate yet! the Govt will have to give in sooner or later. Right now America is the BOSS, if we think Gilani or Khayani can stand up to them for long whoare we kidding?

Dear Imran,

1. I am an Indian. If Pakistanis are so sure about an Indian state agency aiding these terrorists, what are you waiting for? Present the evidences to the public. We can’t expect international community to take these accusations seriously with out evidences.

2. Why are they afraid of Sharia: Do we still need flogging and stoning to death to achieve progress? Have not societies around us progressed in the last thousands of year? Will something achieved by inducing fear last longer? Is the Sharia system open to public discussion and changes like the laws in other countries? Does this system considers people who may not believe in God but want to live in a peaceful and progressive society? Do the laws exist for the society or is it the other way round? There is a fear about the interpretation of Sharia law apart from the way it is implemented now.

3. Is it Pakistan’s war? Taliban is openly stating everyday that they want to complete control of Pakistan as well as the rest of world and take us all back to the past! No point in dreaming & waiting that they will stop themselves at Swat. Is it worth taking this risk? Money & power is what matters to them. History clearly has shown their way of doing things. What will happen if Talban have access to Pakistan’s nuclear arms?

4. In the past Pakitan and to some extent India too have avoided taking bold & correct decisions for short term relief/political gains not concerning about its impact on future generations. Promoting Jihadi groups during proxy war is a classic example. Although it is going to be pain, I hope that we think, debate and take bold and correct decisions now so that both India and Pakistan can build a peaceful and prosperous society.

Dear Imran Khan of Dir

I object to your saying that India with their three consulates in different cities of Afghanistan near Pakistan’s border are operating in the tribal areas and other districts NWFP. That’s incorrect. You are saying the same because you and some of your fellow country men have the false perception of India instigating troubles from there.

India is there because of development reasons and is involved in assisting Indian firms in their development projects. So many viable development projects have been developed for the welfare of Afghan people. Also, tell me, was any worthwhile growth oriented projects developed to benefit the people of those areas during the infamous Taliban (backed by Pakistan) rule in the glory days of 1990’s. Nothing, there was no growth and development.

America has totally ignored all that, why? I think it is because it knows that Pakistan’s claims on the same has no substance and also because it understands the worth of India’s good work in those areas. I believe the world knows this too.

Coming to your telling that this is not your war at all. Of course it is not. But to say that America and India brought this war to our doors to destroy Pakistan is incorrenct.. It is your country’s wrong policies driven by the combo of your armed forces and agencies that has brought Pakistan to this present position, on the brink of collapse. Now to your saying that they will be defeated very soon, don’t even imagine the same even in your dreams, for both are powerful and have the resources and intelligence.

Be cool and don’t get carried away emotionally. Think positively and get your facts right. All the troubles that Pakistan is facing now is due to your country’s support to militant factions in the past. I hope you will be cured and feel better after reading this.

Supporting terrorism is a good business for Pakistan. If we did not have Taliban, Al-Quaeda, Sharia Laws, Jihad then we wouldn’t be getting Billions of dollars from the US.

How else can we survive? We produce very little for the rest of the world, for the welfare of the word. The only way for Pakistan to have good life is get ransom money from the West.

Like Pirates, Pakistan is smart to maintain terrorist support and get the dollars from the US.

This have been Pakistan history in the past 60 years.

Look around, what the remaining 80% of the world think about Islam in general and Pakistan in particular.

Dear Ragu,
Regardless of the question whom war is it! Pakistan has been paying a lot for this war but what Pakistan gets in return, is internal instability and chaos. You may say this is our self production but that is not right. This instability is brought by America in two ways:
1.We fought in FATA with our own people and killed hundreds of innocent tribesmen. Even today the Americans are bombing the innocent people with drones. One can see Geo News analysis on the success of drones attacks in FATA broadcasted few days back and he will find the fact there how successful these attacks are..
2.India’s involvement in Pakistan, so called moderate may refuse this but India has established three consulates in different cities of Afghanistan near Pakistan’s border where from they are operating in the tribal areas and other districts NWFP. America has totally ignored all that and wants to give India even a stronger position in Afghanistan, saying that India is the leader of the region which is not acceptable to Pakistan because of Indian role in the region over the past few years.

This not our war at all, I think America and India brought this war to our doors to destroy Pakistan but they will be defeated very soon.
One thing I will ask my country men Why are they afraid of Sharia?? Many will reply they are not against Sharia but against Taliban Sharia… Then why the Govt is not signing Nizam-i-Adal regulations which are according to the constitution of Pakistan not that of Taliban?

the war on terror in this very region is posing a great threat to the Pakistan. our country has been the part of this war but unfortunately the expected results are not shown up till today and this will remain the same.Pakistan has lost $34.5 billion during this war and this amount will go on to touch the new level. when we look at the US PAK relation,it never been in the interest of Pakistan. so i think Pakistan must not take this adventure along with US coz this will increase more hatred among the inhabitants of North Waziristan and the other burning areas of PAKISTAN.PAF should now take a bold step,not to allow planes from US to hit the so called selective targets.

Many in Pakistan seems to believe this war against Taliban and other militant groups is a foreign war being fought in Pakistani territory. On the contrary, Pakistan is doing itself a big favor by fighting this war. Many in Pakistan should ask following key questions-
Is it good for Pakistan to stop this war and share governing their country with a bunch of extremists who do not believe in moderate values. Are Pakistanis truly willing to live under the sharia of Taliban? Why not try Taliban ruling Pakistan for a few years, if it feels so bad to fight against them for a foreign cause after taking billions of dollars in aid?

Dear Sarwar Husain,
In reply to my comments you have said that “The fact is rather otherwise, it is India who from the day one wants to destablize Pakistan.” May be you are right. But, with out any sarcasm may I ask that what is the basis or reason of your this belief. The fact of the history is that Pakistan was created with mutual consent of the people and leaders of that time including the Quaid. Voting was carried out under the British Raj to determine the geographical areas whose people desired to form Pakistan. There was no war like the war for Palestine or many other places going on today. Yes the other fact of history is also that scores of people were killed during partition BUT Sir this was due to the large exchange of population and their frustrations of leaving their homes on both side AND NOT because of any teretory. Greed also played a role where people wanted to grab the properties of the people leaving.
Today after sixty years let us think that is it not true that the myths of India attacking or destabilizing Pakistan or vice versa have been propagated methodically by leaders and Army to rule and befool us. Let us unite and fight Terror that is awaiting to destroy us.

I am impressed by the Dawn forum, because the readers get a good chance of learning good or bad opinion.
However, it’s the best practice if every one responding to the debated issue/topic stick to the topic without prejudice/bias.
Honesty is the best policy.

These so called politician should wake themselves and bring the masses on front.

Mr. Qureshi a Multani Pakistani,took a very bold step to say no we can not do more to USA.

Mr. Qureshi they are Pakistani do not let USA to bomb them . We do not need this cooperation we will fight this war by ourselves, listening their views,educating them.Controlling them not to go and spoil their generation.
Regards
Khalid Rao

its a very lucrative offer to pakistan from Uncle SAM… and its not the time to cry out loud and return the foreign aid coming Pakistanis way. coz its kind of compensation from USA, for what it is doing in FATA and other area of pakistan. Me thinks , its a right time to keep shut accept the American hand as saviour of time. As its very clearly seen here around the globe that pakistan army and its political parties are in capable to anything to do anything against these foreign mercenaries, so called TALIBS. People of pakistan should accept the aid and use it wisely in creating more multi cultural society…

One more thing i would like to add to my previous writing –

Pakistani people give 15 billion dollar every year to the government in the form of taxes

which is considerably quite a large amount than Obama’s check of 1.5 billion dollar

Pak Government owes more to wishes of People of Pakistan than will of Obama and his allies

And People of Pakistan simple don’t want the government to fight this Foreign War

For people who think Pakistan is running on American aid:

Pakistan budgets rounds 20 billion dollar per year and if America has given .5 billion dollar in past per year- that does not mean that Pakistan is running on American aid.

Else that money which America has given was used to provide the safe passage for their supplies to reach to Afghanistan & spend on fighting a war with people who are not fighting with people of Pakistan.

America if hired Pak for fighting its war – this amount is nothing – but for sure Pak is spending more than its resources to fight this war

If we dont fight this American war we can save a lots of money – our security situation will be better and economy will flourish more – which will give a return more than 1.5 billion dollar per year for sure.

Mr Sarwar Husain,

India needs to compete with pakistan? why should it compete with you? I feel like laughing when you say this.

Show me one metric where pakistan can be compared with India.

As a Indian muslim, we are fine in India, we no need any external help and please don’t create problem for us. We have our own voice..

Let us face the truth and fight together!

This is in reference to Mr. Vinod’s comments where he alleges that we in Pakistan compete in everything with India.

The fact is rather otherwise, it is India who from the day one wants to destablize Pakistan.

It is India who wants to compete with Pakistan, be it sports, social or politics etc etc. Anything happens with Muslims in India they are threatened to leave their country and go to Pakistan. It is such culture prevailing in India.

Please correct the record and yes this trend must change and there should not be any neighbor bashing either side.

Sarwar Husain

I am amazed to read some of the comments. the basic point is what is the economic situation of Pakistan – industrial production is poor and cant support country’s economy. agricultural production is at much lower level than potential. it was flourishing at one time.

Huge defense expenditure and ISI role in nurturing let taliban and many more continues unabated.

Country needs lot of money to support budget due to political and security environment foreign investment not likely to come.

what is the choice to avoid bankruptcy? US aid! no one gives you free money – only choice is to abide by their conditions and concentrate on economic growth instead of supporting the terrorists.

Let us face the truth and fight together!

May I ask one question the answer of this question has never come to me. Why every one in Pakistan, specially the Army and the ISI, is so hung up with a competition with India? Why not with China or Iran or even a small country say Dubai? It is so sad to see the time and energy being wasted on this. Today’s Indian is hardly ever thinking of Pakistan, except when the polticians with their cunning use the subject for votes. To day we are competing with ourselves and may be searching a position on the Globe. We look at you as another country like Burma or Indonesia or Korea and go on with our lives.

It is time that every Pakistani should pause and think that why would India Like to attack Pakistan created by voting and mutual agreement. It is absurd that we would like to bring so many complecated problems and hamper our progress by harming or attacking Pakistan. The myth of India danger is spread in Pakistan by the Army and ISI to retain their supremacy, power and the wealth amassed from various sources like business and you know what. Please let us get out of this propoganda. You know India has a histroy of never being close to America in past. But today let us stand and stand united with even America to fight out the real enemy – Terrorism.

Dear Pakistani Friend,

Thanks for your concerns!

But we can take care of the our problems by ourselves.

Referring to two Lahore attack – Pak police has fought bravely with the attackers – killed them or make them run from the motives they had.

This is our Land and we know how to take care of it – noone else can do it better than us.

The only problem in finding solutions is the un-sincere motives of the foreigners

Pakistan is faltering on all fronts. Financial crisis has broken the back of the country let alone the threats of advancing Taliban.
Speaking of Taliban or even Al-Qaeda, it was a joint US-Pakistan effort to create that force to fight the Soviets and nobody paid attention to them once the Soviets retreated from Afghanistan. Pakistani intelligentsia even used them on different fronts to fight their proxy wars.
So what’s wrong in joining hands again in eradicating this menace which is spreading like a genetically modified bad weed produced by the American MonSanto. Afterall, Pakistan doesn’t have much of a choice ie cooperating with the US or face a full fledged assault from more and more advancing Talibans as well as financial collapse

It is certainly a bold step but we should also be prepared for the aftermath of the decision. I believe now U.S. with the help of India militants can try to destabilize the country even more to get us to a point where they can say “see, you need our help”.

It doesn’t make sense when we say cooperation be made conditional considering the fact that we want to survive on the money provided by them. Once you have accepted the money then you are out the game. The point is not how best they can proceed but, how far they will go in disregarding the sovereignty of the country and carrying out attacks on our soil.

I agree with what Ahmed Moosa spells out in clear and no uncertain terms and would add that in the unfortunate event of Islamabad being overrun by Taliban or even if there is an iota of a chance of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling in the hands of the militants, we can easily forget about drones and prepare ourselves for B-52 bombers delivering kilotons weapons on Pakistan.

Pakistan had been cooperating with the united states of America ever since it gained independence in 1947.

it was part of our sponsored defence pacts, seato, baghdad pact, cento etc. the rulers in pakistan were fooled that the solution of ills was in keeping friendly ties with washington. afghanistan imbroglio is not the first in which US is entrenched and seeking pakistan’s help. with islamabad’s help it dismembered the mighty soviet union. it was pakistan that facilitated US diplomatic ties with china.

it was pakistan that helped US to intrude into the muslim world. in return, washington invented pl-480, to make and break governments in pakistan in the fifties. it weakened democracy and ayub era of dictatorship came in.

Zardari has been smart enough to refuse to accept blank cheque nor is ready to offer such a document. its wise not to board the sinking american ship. US is destined the meet the same fate in afghanistan as the former soviet union met.

no one had come out victorious from afghanistan. the country is going to prove the US grave yard. so why to fight besides them?

Better Late than never!

I am glad to hear that Pakistan has finally turned down this awful suggestion given by the US.

Applause to Shah Mehmood Qureshi and others.

I believe that we should step out of this ‘war on terror’ ASAP and try to find solution to our indigenous problems.

I believe we can effectively use dialogue as a tool for solving the Taliban issue (as proved by the Buner issue). Moreover, autonomy of provinces can bring fruitful results (suppression leads to hate and crimes).

Thanks

I hear a lot of my Pakistani friends saying two things. One, US presence in Afghanistan and operations in Pakistan is a form of slavery. And two, the drone attacks should cease. Let us first ask ourselves what the US is doing in the area. US interferance in this area is not new. The last time was between 1979 – 1989 when Zia welcomed them with open arms, accepted their money and allowed them free access. This proved one thing to the Americans….that you can do what you want in Pakistan if you know the right people, and if you dont forget to carry your cheque book.

As far as violation of sovereignty is concerned, its all in Pakistan’s hand. No one can violate anyone’s sovereignty if a nation stands firm. Those who came before sold Pakistan’s nationhood for a few dollars.

Finally, this will be the first time in the history of Afghanistan that it will be conquered and held by a foriegn army. Till now, the others were invaders and came with the intent to invade and subjugate. They were looked upon as villians. This time, the villians are the Taliban. The whole world was protesting US ocupation of Iraq. Today, we dont see that opposition for Afghanistan.

Say what you may. With you, without you or in spite of you…the Americans will finish the job. And for the first time in their dirty history of interference and invasions (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq etc)…they have done the right thing. The reputation of Afghan (hence Taliban) invincibility was based on moral right, as much as their fighting capabilities. After blowing up girls schools and whipping women, they have lost that ground. The world believes that the Americans are fighting stone-age savages.

The Americans have got it right this time.

After having created the demons of terror, Pakistan is finding itself on the backfoot. When its famed armed forces and pride ISI cannot tame the march of Taliban across various parts of Pakistan, what’s wrong in agreeing to US’s help to scoot the demons from Pakistan’s soil and eventually from the world?

I heard a lot about the might of Pakistan’s armed forces and wiles of the famous ISI, but pray where are those qualities when Taliban is having a free run across Pakistan. Has it been checkmated or simply kept under wraps?? When terror attacks are happening in Pakistan’s most cosmopolitan city Lahore, then its time to acknowledge that Pakistan is under real danger.

Its time to not talk of sovereignty, but time to talk of pure existence as a single state. Which one is important??? Safety and security OR Fear and danger. Think wise and in a level headed manner or else agree to live under the rule of people who will take you back to stone age era. Cool and matured heads is the need of the hour in today’s Pakistan.

I agree with the government and am glad they had the guts to say no. US should not come half way around the world to solve problems.

Yes, the decision although quite late, was the right one to say ‘no’ to the so-called joint operations in FATA as proposed by the American duo.

In their own national interest, its the high time and the right time for the movers and shakers in the land of the pure to pull-out immediately from the so-called US coalition on the war on terror. The sooner they take off the yoke of slavery from their neck the better. Time is running out fast and any more delays in taking this bold and daring step by the PPP government might prove to be fatal as well as harmful beyond any possible repairs to the national security and territorial integrity of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

I think that any average can tell you that sooner or later, US is doomed to fail in Afghanistan and will be forced to quit since all invaders have to leave one day. Now it’s up to the current PPP leadership to show its real transactional skills and traits by calling it a quits with the Americans. If they are able to do so, for sure, the process of American withdrawal from Afghanistan will be accelerated by more than three folds and I will not be surprised if they are forced to get out of Afghanistan latest by the end of the current term in office of President Obama.

To day for the first time I have gone through the DAWN COM FORUM. I am impressed with the conviction and clarity the problems are being discussed. I feel it is right to go for joint operations. why only with America let all the countries in the region including China join and fight this terror looming large to destroy the life and what ever progress has been achieved.

US operations joint or alone will not raise the issue of Pakistan’s sovereignty violation because they want to operate in the areas occupied by Afghan, Chechen, Uzbek militants and Pakistani rebels. This situation has close resemblance with 1971 war when we requested America to intervene against Indian’s invasion and Bengali rebellion. In 1971 they could not help but now they want to take charge. So let them join us against our enemy.

We have lost SWAT, NWFP and Balochistan. We face an increasing menace of Taliban taking over the coutry. Our Government and army are useless and have resigned all ability to strike back. yet there is still a call for Kashmir!

We cannot defend our own coutry and keep it united and yet we still harp for kasmir – the very reason we trained terrorists who now threaten to take over Islamabad instead of kashmir. See our fate. How kashmir has turned into a disaster for pakistan – as if bangladesh taught us nothing.

Pakistan cannot face a taliban push for islamabad. The USA can protect us and maintain pakistan as a unified islamic state. The USA is our best friend- better than our own govenment or our expensive army. Our army has enjoyed civilain benefits too much and for far too long time, it has lost the will to fight, it has outsourced the will to fight to the terrorists, until too late as the terroists now feel they are the masters.

God bless USA for our defence and independence.

moosa

If American forces continue to bomb inside Pakistani territories just based on intelligence availed from satellites, that is never going to help their cause. That terrain is one of the most dangerous and roughest in the world, and only Pak army and ISI have the experience of combating in those terrains.
But the ideology of Taliban has now been embedded in the upcoming generations of those areas and with time the resistance will become stronger and stronger if we continue to fight. The only end to this ordeal can be achieved through very intense dialog and the clearing of misconceptions between the gov and taliban. But as Pak is bound with very incompetent leaders and politicians, and the nation divided over this issue, there doesn’t seem any end in sight. It will only get worse from here whether there would be any help from Americans or not.

To Gaurav Arya:

Excellent post Mr.Arya……..I fully agree with you. Further I would like to add, if we cannot combat millitants, there is no harm in seeking US assistance in killing these millitants who are playing havoc with human lives in the name of Islam. We have already handed over Swat to them……..what’s next in line…Lahore, Gujranwala, Karachi, Hyderabad, Nazimabad, Sialkot, DHA, Liaquatabad, Quetta, II Chundrigar Rd……..wake up my friends and lets get united to cure this disease called ‘Taliban!’

Pak needs US more than the US needs Pak now. Sovereignty – lets be practical. Our army cannot root out the Taliban. If not a full fledged joint operation, at least try them out in a particular region.
US is simply not going to give their drone without any trust building measures. And why blame them for accusing ISI.
For the Pak people the LeT are ‘good’ militants, as they mostly don’t kill our own people. Taliban are the ‘bad’ militants as they are now killing our own people.
US just sees both as militants – which is not completely wrong.
A lot of introspection and open mindedness is required. Pak used to be a great nation. Lets face the reality. Lets stop pretending to be a sovereign nation – we are not!
Either we allow US help us root out the Taliban or we let Taliban root out any sanity left in the country.

Pakistan Government has done right thing by showing guts. As USA,UK and India kept on saying do more do more; it is the right time for Pakistan Government to stand up show their National Sovereignty National Esteem. Pakistan does not need any aid which is being conditional and at the cost to its soverignty and at the cost of Kashmir issue. Kashmir is “integral part of Pakistan” not India. India is occupying that land.

I cannot for the life of me believe that our Army cannot defeat the rag-tag taliban who have made life Hell for our citizens.
A pertinent question however is ” Does our Army want to defeat the Taliban?”
I think NOT.

Hello, wake up everyone in Pakistan, mullahs are just as likely to become corrupt once they succeed in Islamizing the political system. They will have the added benefit of controlling the madrassahs and brainwashing the minds of the innocent kids of pakistan. To put it simply Pakistan was created as a secular society with secular constition and the founding father left the constition intact until the Zia-ul Haq turned back the clock.

The objective should be to bring back the secular society with freedom of religion, freedom of the press and above all tolerance. Until Pakistan’s population is educated to think and reason on their own, it cannot stop the talibanization of Pakistan. US is the only hope Pakistan has to steer it in the right direction, but Pakistan should take a principled stand not only to rid its tribal areas of Taliban but more importantly its military; then and only then will the government be able to function like a government for the people.

In my opinion, it would be very difficult for the Pakistan government to work jointly with the US. Due to the fact that there is a strong anti American sentiment in the Tribal region and NWFP of Pakistan. Instead of this US should work closely with the Army of Pakistan and enhance their capacity to tackle the issue similar to the new strategy of obama to build capacity of Afgan forces to manage their own affairs. And also help Pakistan portray it as its own war.

It is quite suprising and uppsetting to know that a country, who claims to have the potential to makes its defence against the strong army of India, can not defeat a group of few hundreds or a thousand of people called Taliban. Pakistan army sucessfully fought Balochis in Balochistan where the environmental conditions are as same as in FATA. Whereas in Taliban’s case, they pretend to be such a hopeless that they are in need of advanced technologies.

Pakistan is not in need of any kind of outsiders help whatsoever. Pakistan Army and Airforce have the strength and technology eliminate Talibinisation not only from FATA but from the rest of the country. Pakistan should not rely even on the US funds after receiving embarrasing statements of blank cheque by the US President.

The big question is if Pakistan itself really wants to get rid of the Talibans?

Pakistan should say to US that if the drone attacks are not stopped on Pakistan from today onwards then we will halt all relations with it. No more support from now on. Believe me this act will do magic.

The idea of a joint military operation is preposterous. US track record in Iraq and Afghanistan of not rooting out the insurgencies and causing mass civilian casualties gives them no credence. US has not fulfilled Pakistani request for military technology like night vision goggles, helicopter gunships, drones, spare parts for two years. This is lame American offer to show Washington that the General Mullen and Halbrooke are trying a new strategy. Americans are smart enough to know Pakistani will not bite.

Any Pakistani government who agrees to this military cooperation will fold in months. Pakistani army already has moral and morale issues with soldiers not wanting to fight fellow Muslims. American military doctrine is that US armed forces do not take orders from other countries’ officers so you can imagine who will be ordering who. This can cause mutiny.

And to the comment about link with Kashmir, foreign occupation of Muslim lands has been the primary motivator for Jihadi recruits. It used to be Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Chechnya. Now Iraq and Afghanistan (redux) have added to this cause. If 80,000 are killed in Kashmir, women raped, houses burnt, and civil rights trampled, have no doubt about it provides fodder for the Jihadi propaganda and creates a cause for holy war which few religious leaders are able to argue against.

The present quagmire in Afghanistan is the result of mis-deeds of so-called Super Powers, who dont hesitate lecturing the world on terrorism, human rights and other noble ideas. Russia made it habit to overrun the smaller states and usurp ther rights until it collided with Afghanistan, its ultimate grave yard. US found it opportune to take the advantage of the situation. She encouraged, funded & trained the Jihadists with the help of Pakistan. All these Talibans are end result of American funding. With the help of these very Taliban and Pakistan USA became the solo super power and deserted its ally Pakistan at the mercy of warlords, fanatics, Millions of refugees, fatal weapons and anarchy. But USA had suddenly to wake up on 9/11. She again needed Pakistan. Old pact of friendship was renewed. Pakistan has lost $35 billion with thousands of military and civil casualties. USA wanted us to do on $10 Billion what she could not achieve by spending 500 Billion dollars. The worold will soon pay for the follies committed by Supers Powers in Afghanistan.

we need to sort ourselves out. we need leaders with vision and character.. that is not to say that our current leaders are characterless. unfortunately what they have is shady. we need leaders from the middle class and upper middle class not the elites if this country is to go in the right direction.

with regards to the turning down of the joint patrol and operation in fata… we are sovereign nation. we are not iraq or afghanistan. neither are we so decadent that we need help in securing our fronts. if America wants us to be serious and wants to be serious with us, it better get involved in the Kashmir dispute.

India has been is funding movements such as the separatist movement in Baluchistan. Indian presence in afghanistan is of a serious concern to us.

If Washington wants a standup ally and a friend… Washington needs to first be a standup ally and friend.. we did our part during the cold war..it is their turn. as long as the Kashmir issue is not resolved we do not have a choice but to rely on the militants and militias as a buffer.

though detrimental we have no choice at the moment but to pursue our policy for our own security. as far as how successful can the US be in Afghanistan without at some stage returning to the table for talks and negotiations… well history taught the USSR a lesson. and history also teaches us history is often repeated.

Nation that hold a beggar’s bowl has no right to sovereignty. Either you live within your means and be proud or listen to your benefactors. Pakistan could have been a self sufficient country only if it had leadership with integrity.Right after the death of founding father, Mr. Jinnah, the destiny of nation has been in the hands of most corrupt & selfish individuals.The present leadership is continuation of the past legacy. US will keep on dictating the terms until its objective is secured,making Pakistan subservient to India.

Let us all try to understand the diplomatic tactics of all actors in this battle…..Can we guarantee America that Osama’s hideouts will be eliminated? No, we cannot because of 100 reasons. Then what is the solution? Can the world enlarge its scope to have inter-faith dialogue debates immediately in Europe and in America. Let us try to make people in those countries understand what is the real message of the Holy Prophet. Let us be very goal oriented in this manner. Otherwise, destruction, destruction and destruction.

We have foreign terrorists slaughtering our people, for what reason. How would a foreign army on pakistani soil be any different. We should get help before it is too late. I say desperate times call for desperate actions.

I am glad Govt is taking the right steps to ensure public safety. We simply cannot afford to put our Country’s integrity and security at risk to support a foreign strategic/economic war with seemingly no end.

I also think that Govt should turn down aid that comes with conditions as this clearly overstepping our foreign policy. America under Obama is no different as the mindset of policy makers of House/Congress are the same.

Neocon subversive agenda is transparent as Obama has clearly dropped all his policies and adopted blind following the blind. Afghan theatre is a lost war and has been for the last six years. Window of opportunity has closed for NATO/US in Afghanistan. Foreign forces ignored the plight of Afghans therefore they have chosen to join that ranks of resistance. One only needs to look at Soviet war in 1984-1989 to observe stark similarities in two conflicts.

I think Pakistan can wipe off the Taliban cancer if India stops interfering in Pakistan. Having an exernal enemy on both sides it is hard to focus on the Taliban.

The Americans must understand that without creating a peace between India and Pakistan there will be no end of extremism and Jihadi agendas. India must support the fragile democratic government of Pakistan or India will have to deal with the spill over trouble. There is gowning frustration among Pakistani army over Indian roles in Balochistan and FATA and I am really concerned it will explode if not handled right away.

Perhaps its time for Pakistan to put this choice to a national vote.

A national vote would make it clear whether the people are actually committed to fighting this extremism or they prefer Taliban rule.

One way or the other I suspect the people of Pakistan and USA deserve some clarity.

I gone through all the responses all of them are talking about ISI and Army are great and they can save Pakistan! But In reality they surrender to the talibans. peoples of Pakistan must understand pakistan is a sinking ship with no one to guide it…

only people of Pakistan decide how to save them..only educated peoples can do that.
everyone who is writing these things wake up! In reality no actions on the ground.. but talibans are making their move towards Capital. Mehsud is challenging the government by killing the innocent peoples..what is the army doing?

The leaders of Pakistan Army and Politicians are thinking of only Money..No action. Please save the innocent peoples life … Good Luck

Lets see what we can find in history in regards to Joint Operations and Sovereignty.

Has Pakistan taken joint operations in other countries and did this undermine their sovereignty?

Yes we have taken part in joint operations and no this didn’t undermine the sovereignty of countries that genuinely needed help. Examples: In 1969 in Yemen and Saudi Arabia to recover Saudi invaded territory by communists from South Yemen. In 1971 in Jordan where Pakistani officers led Jordanian units against the PLO. In the Gulf war, joining coalition forces and being deployed in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

This whole sovereignty crying is nonsense. Pakistan is losing its sovereignty to Taliban extremists who are swarming and invading our settlements and they’re worried about the US drone strikes which already take off from a remote Quetta air base and have had permission to fly in and out of our country since 2002?

Smoke and Mirrors, people. Our army just doesn’t want to admit it needs help, or simply don’t want help for unknown or possibly sinister reasons, that too with the added perception from non-Muslims (oddly has anyone heard any offers from other Muslim countries whether they could help us or not?)

Musharraf may have allowed drone attacks and even provided real time intelligence to make them more effective. Zardari is probably continuing the same policies.

Qureshi’s show of displaying outrage and anger at these attacks is an act that would shame Bollywood. If he is serious about stopping these attacks he should resign and take the nation in confidence.

did you ever think of the expression terrorist – to some countries a person is terrorist and at the same time to the other country the person is a freedom fighter.

what is wrong with Talibans? they are a group of religious people – believing in Islamic and sharia laws. Pakistan is a Muslim country and there is nothing wrong with sharia laws.

think for a moment – the corruption, robberies, assaults,rapes,robberies, theft is a very very common practice among Pakistani society. right from the bottom to the high gentry. if sharia laws are enforced the whole country could get rid of the evil corruption – and this will bring peace to the nation.

Any one with a little bit of intelligence and imagination can see where this is heading: US and NATO forces from Afghanistan, US Navy from the Gulf, and India from East will end up fighting the Taliban and the battleground will be Pakistan. Iran will come in and clean up Balochistan neighbourhood.

“If the house is on fire, it would be suicidal to tell the fire fighters to douse the fire only from outside and not come into the house ‘because it is a question of privacy and autonomy’.”

What if the neighbour’s house is on fire and approaching your house. Will you still let the fire fighters into your house or ask them to cut the source at neighbour’s house ?

I say we tell the Americans not to interfere and let the Pakistanis deal with this issue. Let their be a “true” sharia law in swat and I say in the whole nation.. It’s a Muslim nation and Allah’s law should be the guidance of the nation. We have tried dictatorship and as well as democracy, now I believe its time for ‘Islamic government’, which is the only road to a successful nation. Islam doesn’t prohibit, education and is open to science and discovery, but it prohibits, most of the fundamentals which are associated with a capitalist society. Lets sit with the tribal elders and discuss the issue and don’t leave it until its resolved. War is not the solution, its a root of a bigger problem. It leaves scars which are never healed. Lets all the Pakistani work this issue with a mutual understandings of each other, and guide the country to a better and healthier future. First we need to elimenate race and language issues and treat each others as brothers and sisters and forget about the harsh past and move forward with a open heart. Than we need to join the states together, when ever there is a problem in one state, rest of the states should join in and help protect that state without any hesitations. “United we stand, divided we fall.. here is another good one”.. “Dont ask what your country has done for you, ask yourself what you have done for the country.” May Allah bless Pakistan and gets rid of all the Fitnahs in our society.. Long live Pakistan!

Jinnah founded a Muslim majority country, but believed in pluralistic secular society. After Jinnah, the incompetent Pakistani leaders changed Pakistan into a Islamic country. The only force that kept this tribal minded leaders remain bounded together is the anti-Indian policy. There view of Pakistan as a country that is against India. This myopic vision prevented a great country to achieve its potential. How a country with such negative vision can survive?

We already passed sixty years and I hope the new generation Pakistani citizens will understand what a mess their predecessors and current leaders have created. The only hope is to get a new leader like Obama from Pakistan and bring the country to 21st century paradigm. Once that happens all problems will be solved and Taliban will not be an challenge to create a modern developed Muslim country. Living in USA I met many people from Pakistan and I do not see any difference between them and we Indians. How come they can not protect their country from these evil leaders?

I hope the Pakistani young generation will respond like US and get organized to address this problem. Use Internet to create your force and change this mess. I suggest all young Muslims of Pakistan to read the articles of APJ Abdul Kalam to get inspiration to change their country from the sackle of ignorance and narrowmindedness.

I would not be surprised if US troops showed up in FATA. Just as in the past, present govenment will deny it. Remember when we were told that Drones were flying from Afghanistan but a ranking memeber of US intellegence committee revealed that they were flying from Pakistan. Why doesn’t national assembly look into this impending disaster ? Look around and ask yourself a question – Is there one leader in the whole country can muster up the courage and tell these foreign powers that Pakistan can take care of its internal problems without any interference from out side. I seriously doubt.

Joint operation should not be allowed with the drone attacks. If USA is sincere it should provide the drone techno to Pakistan. Pakistan should know a friend of your enemy is not your friend. The whole credit of the present situation in Pakistan goes to the Americans. They don’t know what they are doing. They should get out of Afghanistan and let Pakistan army clean sweep the whole region from FATA into Afghanistan and get rid of the trouble makers, who ever they might be.

I forgot to address the Taliban issue.
Frankly speaking I think the US is fanning the flames with their drone attacks. Stop the drone attacks and launch an enormous educational program to get transform the Taliban. People need jobs first and then ideology.

The US aid bill is a clear indication where the US-India team is headed, the end result is a defanging of pakistan as a relatively strong nuclear armed country. NO not only to the joint operations but NO to any cooperation between the US and Pakistan.

Is this is a joke? a US bill being presented in the US senate mentioning clear references for Pakistan to stop conducting activities against India? I hope the corrupt government does not accept this nonsense from the US! for 1.5 Billion? I mean 1.5 Billion is that what we have been reduced to? 1.5 Billion to out things in prespective AIG in the US despite being crooks to the core and embezzling money through all channels got 60 Billion in BAILOUT money! 1.5 billion to let go of our assets in Afghanistan, to offer 80,000 of our soldiers to fight the terrorists….to promise not to harm India despite her intention to dismember Pakistan?

Pak army and ISI Zindabad for looking after out border as we sleep and for thwarting the nefarious external designs.

ps: The solution:

1) please elect the chief justice as your president… defy American resistance

2) Form a three way dialogue between Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. Come up with a game plan to curb Indian influence in Afghanistan. India’s influence in the region is not productive. Pakistanis and Afghanis should look out for each other.

3) Leave the Americans out in the cold.

4) If you need money ask Iran for help. China will most likely not come forward at this stage. Unless you can offer some business rewards.

I just read a report by the new president of the MacArthur foundation. It is the largest grant giving foundation in the USA. The current president of this foundation is essentially calling for dismantling Pakistan and putting it under the control of Russia, China, etc,..
To the ordinary Pakistani and Afghani: please realize that it is only through unity and a lot of intelligent moves will be able to get out of this stranglehold. The world is against us… and they have played with our lives too much,

I wish Pakistan was not being strangled this way.

I wish the ordinary Pakistanis would understand what is at stake here. When you lose your country you lose everything!

Americans do not care for Pakistan. If they are not kicked out they will destroy Pakistan.

Pakistanis need to understand that the Americans do not care for them one iota.

I am a Proud Pakistani. First off all, we are a sovereign nation.

Initially Taliban were created by the foreign policies of USA and its allies to finish the Cold War against Russians. They were armed by guns and guess where did the money came from? I am sure that everyone knows that Pakistan is a poor country and cannot afford to buy arms for them. Secondly till date they are being funded from somewhere and we are not willing to go into the roots of this funding which again cannot come from Pakistan.

I can never support a joint operation in our motherland. Why are these so called friends of Pakistan so afraid to share intelligence with us and if they are giving us the funds? they are forgetting that this is being used by us to eliminate the menace of Taliban!

No one besides a Pakistani can and should operate in our homeland. I have never heard of USA saying the same thing about Indian Kashmir as well. Why? Because, Indians ensure that they are respected. We should do the same looking at the examples of our neighbors.

look at the history, it tells us how to trust.

Firstly we should ask where these so-called Talibans came from, who created them and what external interests are still manipulating these puppets?

The Pakistan Government shouldn’t have stood by with the drone attacks anyways. Atleast now they have realised the way the US has started treating Pakistan.

Based on the current loan ties with foreign countries Pakistan is not in any position to say no.

If Pakistan really wants to stand up as a proud nation, government of Pakistan have to stand up and fix its own house of Politicians who have been skimming the country since the fall of President Ayub government.

Pakistan need to get rid of corruptions. Government will have to start by cleaning its own house first.

Stop giving the MNAs and MPA, millions of dollars, who have no accountability on how they use the money given to them to spend on their constituency development.

Select an honest government.

The issue of Sovereignty is a moot point.

The real issue is whether the Pakistani Army has the will to fight the militants. The argument that they may not have the ability is hogwash — how can a professionally trained army with tanks, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery be held hostage by people with a few bombs and small arms?

India fought against the same people, crushed them and established democratic elections that saw overwhelming participation from the local people recently. I refuse to believe that the Pakistani Army is so inferior comparatively that they continue to lose battle after battle against a vastly inferior militia.

So, no, the question is not whether they have the ability. They do. The question is whether they have the will to fight.

If they do, then by all means prove it and retake Swat and parts of Balochistan, and establish the writ of the constitution there.

If they do not have that will, then get out of the way and let more capable people like the US do the job for them.

When the very survival of your country is at stake, you have no choice. What would you rather have — talk of Sovereignty today and no Pakistan tomorrow, or have a Pakistan that becomes a reflection of Jinnah’s vision of a moderate and progressive country?

Hey Gruv,

Your concerns with Pakistan is very much eminent as it deals with future of your country also.

One way which was suggested and forced by Pakistan over a long period in the past – was the way for peace. The decision we took to make this world a better place to live in.

However the hope was thwarted to some extent by Indian actions.

Indians talks of Kashmir – But human rights violations continued and it backed away from the Kashmir issue.

The place where people were dying for freedom for 60 Years and India doesnt want to stop these killings.

They are trying the utmost best by fueling into destabilizing Pakistan by pushing in money and resources to separatist groups.

The ground reality of the situation is America is fleeing away from the war in Afghanistan. Leaving the Talibans to merge with Kashmiri militants and create problems for India.

Moreover, Pakistan economy is on reviving track – if you are looking at the news KSE is growing so rapidly that its expected to go beyond where it was before.

In my opinion, Yes of course, Pakistan must accept joint operations proposal as it will reduce Pakistani soldiers casualties which will then divide among Pakistani and U.S. Soldiers and it will also reduce economy and other burdens on Pakistan.

This is a golden opportunity for Pakistan to share the losses with U.S. It is high time to deal with the Taliban with extreme force otherwise they may turn up in our cities.

if Pakistani forces are unable to deal them which apparently seems then why not invite U.S.?

To Quote a report from The Dawn:

‘Local people said that missiles had hit the highly protected compound of a Taliban commander, Maulvi Khaliq Noor. “The Taliban immediately cordoned off the area and retrieved the bodies and no one was allowed to go near the place,” they added.’

Shouldn’t the law enforcing agencies have cordoned of the area effected by the drone strike ?

What sovereignty is being discussed here?

By and large the SAsians countries the situation is not peaceful. Unfortunately, the position prevailing in neighboring nation of Pak appears to be precarious. The political picture, law and order are reportedly going from bad to worse.To cap this the economy is in doldrums. The inflation touching 20%; parity value of 1 USD going down to Rs 80: The columnist of the paper expressing satisfaction if the GDP matches the population growth. Should remind the writing of Bahadurshah Zafar “Us baug ka aalam kya hoga jehan har shaakh par ullu baithe ho’.

Therefore, militancy has to be kept at bay. The nation cannot afford to antagonise America, which has come forward with a semblance of help. Let better sense prevail with the authorities and the populace getting peace.

Pakistan will never be disintegrated. It will live through the ages inshallah.

All those Pakistanis who have this negative attitude, I request them to please show some optimism, have faith in the people of your country.

For people who support the fact that American troops should be allowed on Pakistani soil, I ask them one question and one questions alone.

“What have the American Troops achieved in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 7-8 years”?

Again, We need ‘EQUIPTMENT’ not soldiers from the US.

Getting help from the US in solving this problem of militancy is one thing. I feel that the best way the US can help pakistan is by providing modern equipment such as attack helicopters and night vision goggles which Pakistan has been requesting for so long.

Joint Ops is a violation of Pakistani Territory. I think its very obvious.

We have enough fighting force, why not just well equip it?

I dont think that theres anything that the americans can do which the Pakistanis cannot, provided they have the same equiptment.

Secondly, If they don’t trust Pakistan to hand them the technology. Then this means they do not trust the Pakistani Government, the army and surely not any other security forces, and hence the people of Pakistan.

I am an Indian, a Hindu.

There was a time when I was wishing for a destruction of Pakistan by India going to war with Pakistan or by any other method. My feelings have changed for Pakistan especially after Pervez Musharraf came to Power. He may be very unpopular in Pakistan but he talked a lot of sense. Unfortunately he was not appreciated in Pakistan. Anyway, that is the right of the Pakistanis whom to choose as their leader.

Pakistan has spent 63 years of independence to try to out do India militarily. Everyone knows that this not going to happen. so they promoted terrorism in India in connivance with muhajidin and other terrorist groups no matter how much they deny it. They somehow feel that they need these thugs (taliban) to counter any preceived threat from India.

That is why the Pak Govt, Army and ISI never wanted to disband them and wanted to keep with them just in case. Without them Pakistan Govt feels extremely insecured.

First of pakistanis must understand that their serious enemy is not India or US. It is their own mindset and Talban.

For India it is very safe to have a democratic and prosperious Pakistan. We do want thugs as our neighbours. So I plead with all the Pakistanis to forget about India. Your house is burning. Show a little patriotism and courage and save your country. Forget about self respect now, take help from US defeat Tabilan and then you will have self respect automatically. Your survival is in question. So please save yourself

Good luck

In 1992-1993 Somalia UN mission, several Pakistani soldiers died, and US claimed that Pakistani forces are not capable enough. So they(US) themselves went in and got themselves into trouble and got stuck. Then they had to call Pakistan to come and rescue them, which Pakistan did.

Despite all the technology they have, US soldiers are not capable and not professional.

Friends, this whole “sovereign nation” thing is humbug. I say this because of 2 reasons. One, if Swat, Balochistan and much of NWFP is not under Pakistan’s control, how can you claim sovereignty? This is a case of double standards…if Taliban kill in Swat, you say nothing…if Americans fly drones, you speak of sovereignty!!! Two, America does this to Pakistan simply because Pakistan survives on American aid. As we speak, Pakistan is on the verge of bankruptcy. It is desperately seeking 5 billion dollars from US to avoid an economic crash.

You cant have it both ways. If you take money from US, it will demand something in return. If you really want to be called a soveriegn nation, tell the US to get out of Pakistan with its dollars, build up your own economy and establish rule of law.

My idea is not to offend my Pakistani friends…but to tell everyone that if you take a loan, can you avoid paying the EMI?

AOA,
Right now Pakistan army should do joint operations with Islamic scholars and teachers and work on educating themselves, militants and also rest of the people.
This particular war cannot be won without true knowledge of Islam, knowledge about local culture and history that led to their present situation.

Foreign non-Muslim intervention would make situation only worse as nobody trust them anymore.

Furthermore I think following situation may apply and ALLAH knows best:

From Translation of Quran:

49:9 If two parties among the believers begin fighting, then make peace between them. But if one of them transgresses against the other, then you fight against the one who has transgressed until it complies with the command of Allah. Then if it complies, make reconciliation between them justly and be fair. Surely! Allah loves those who are just and fair.
49:10 The believers are only brothers (in Islam). So make reconciliation between your brothers and fear Allah, so that you may receive mercy.

As being an Indian I support the fact that it is very difficult to allow a foreign power to bring its military in a sovereign nation. Obviously it supports the fact that Pakistani army as well us US are incapable of rooting out the taliban. May be a co-ordinated effort would help, but I hope an average Pakistani understands what would happen to them if they talibanise your own society.

They are a parasite, and just to comment on somebody who said leave taliban and they would not do anything is totally a false premise, its their job to kill and terrorise innocent people.

I am not sure if a military solution would ever exist, you need to kill their ideology bring them modern education and ethics !

Pakistan Government and the army should take the lead and stop terrorism in its country. There is no wrong seeking external help in eliminating terrorist from its soil.Need sincere ,committed leaders to the nation to put every thing under control.

Letting american boots onto our soil means setting a precedence for times to come.

Time is of essence in matters like these and we are slowly slipping into chaos. However, all is not lost and the menace we are dealing with, is not hard to overcome, the question is, Do we have the will. If the nation shows its muscle once again, we can oust this present government once and for all and believe me, all the pieces of the puzzle will fall in place if we can bring in a true leader who cares about this country. And if we dont realize then the circumstances will dictate our future and as the famous saying goes “If you let circumstances dictate your life, you will be a victim of circumstances”. Its just our nation that needs to unite against internal, external threats and of course our government’s dirty games.

I am a Indian.

I sincerely want Pakistan to do well and keeping that in mind I believe you should take whatever help you can get from whatever source to get rid of Taliban.

Keep an open mind

I personally think that it is all a game that US and Pakistani leaders are part of. Pakistani government is securing funding, and allowing US to invade Pakistani soil, while denying that we ever allowed them for drone attacks.

Isn’t Pakistani Army capable of stopping drone attacks? For sure they are! Then why aren’t they stopping US attacks on Pakistani soil? Because our government is charging US for each attack. You never know, SWAT might even have been sold to the US and Taliban.

US thinks that they are the Gods of the world, and they can attack anyone anywhere. If there were terrorists hiding in US soil, would they attack their havens in US? NO! Because, Americans are humans, and Pakistanis are not? Is that the reason?

This is the time for Pakistani people to unite, and fight back! If we wait for our politicians to do something, it will be too late!

Bulk of national budget is going to armed forces. If military can’t defend the country from enemy within, then cut it to size, just enough to parade on special occasions. All it takes a battalion of hard core, disciplined, motivated soldiers to eliminate likes of Bait Ullah.

For some reason some people think that if they shout loud enough America will back off. What they don’t understand is that Pakistanis have shown to be incompetent when dealing with terrorists. They still call them brothers and sisters. For them Lal Masjid attack is still something that was wrong. What they need is a fresh perspective. They should come out of their limited mindset that America will take over. If America wanted to take over, it would have done so very easily. But Pakistanis themselves realize that what is happening is not good for the ordinary people and if Pakistan fails they will have no place to go (politicians will all run to Dubai), they should allow Americans to come in and help them in finishing this threat once and for all. And then nobody should scream or shout when the Talibans and mullahs and politicians get removed by Americans. I really hope, pray, and wish that one day Allah will make Americans enter Pakistan and defeat the extremists.

America has to prove its ‘worth’ to pakistan by listening to Pakistan’s requirements because this is our area and we live in this neighbourhood not America.

I dont see US sanctioning India for its activities in Afghanistan and Kashmir yet Pakistan ‘always needs to do more’. How come?

I do not remember ever reading Gen Kayani criticising the drone attacks. Nor even Zardari. Was Qureshi’s show during the press conference just to fool the trusting public? I do not believe US would be fool hardy to carry out these attacks without a nod from the real powers in Pakistan.

Absolutely correct to reject the joint operation. Its Pakistani territory and only and only Pakistan has the right take any action what so ever for the benefits of our own people.

Pakistan should only agree when Occupiers leave Afghanistan, world forum agrees to help build a Democratic Afghanistan for all Afghani people and stop killing innocent people in Pakistan as well as Afghanistan.

No oration can be successful without a help from Pakistan.

God dont seem to be willing.

I dont understand one thing that how Kashmir issue is related to Taliban as some of my friends in this forum are saying. In fact These terrorists are the result of US war on USSR of which Pakistan was also a part. So Pakistan itself is responsible from this situation.

Secondly as far as joint operation is concerned , First Pakistan should try on its own to eliminate this extremists and should get help, but so for now Pakistan has failed miserably is handling these terrorists. ie. Swat Deal and Shariya Law, and I have read and article also in Dawn News that now these are people are moving towards Islamabad, So Pakistan should come out from the state of Denial and should act fast before it gets too late..

For many years the terrorist groups use Pakistan as their homeland. These groups are also damaging the peace in Pakistan as well as in other countries especially U.S. Pakistan’s army is fighting with these terrorist groups for more than three years. But, unfortunately they never got any remarkable success in these areas. We as a independent nation always say that we are against drone attacks. I think that the modern, educated and global citizen of Pakistan is against drone attacks because we always hear in the news that due to the drone attacks 15 or more then that innocent peoples are killed or injured. But, if the source behind the drone attacks should give evidence and makes it clear that the drone attacks successfully killed terrorist bodies. I think that this is more reliable way. The U.S should have to give the complete report about the positioning of terrorist bodies.

Pakistan should support the U.S policies against the terrorist because they are not only the enemy of U.S but as well as Pakistan. They are damaging the good will of Pakistan. By their action every one in the world says that “every one in Pakistan is terrorist”.

In my view Pakistan lost two wars against India in 1965 and 1971 thanks to the treacherous attitude of the USA. The Americans created al qaeda and the taliban to further their egoistic policies and ambitions and used Pakistan as a stooge. To mask their failure in Afghanistan America is creating the necessary conditions to embroil pakistan into this mess; even if that means the self-destruction of Pakistan. It’s high time to tell the americans to fight their afghan war alone and inside afghan territory. as for alqaeda and the taleban they should be encouraged to fight their attackers on their own afghan territory, if Pakistan is to be spared from implosion; which anyway is one of the wishes of the US.

I say no to joint operations, but at the same time lets not go and beg for US Aid…….Tribal areas were not a problem since 1947, now since 2001 they are a problem!

Lets not be beggars, so what if we sleep hungry for a few days

I hate the taliban and their crude interpretation of Islam, but they will fill the vaccum in afghanistan when US leaves afghanistan and India jumps into this……

I am a Pakistani studying in US. and i think, whats wrong in working with US for solving the terrorism issue? If our goal is make lifes of people peaceful , then isnt that a good idea. I understand,its not that simple, but somewhere there should be a start. Secondly i disagree the kashmir issue is linked in here.. The real issue is insurgence of taliban who is real enemy of us , so we should focus on that first .

Yes.

Why?

If Pakistan thinks that foreign agencies are helping Taliban against Pakistan, this joint operation would bring US against these forces.

Pakistan military has not been able to control Taliban so far. Pakistan is loosing to Taliban district by district. At least with modern technology, Pakistan will be able to combat with Taliban and would get all financial assistance.

Here’s what I have to say regarding history of US engagements.

In 1993 nineteen marines were killed in Somalia when two US Black Hawk helicopters were shot down by men of Farah Eided. In response US army wiped out as many as 991 Somalians in one night. Not all of them were armed men. US Army will not shy from repeating this show of power in spilling non-American blood.

Those who are supporting joint operations keep these incidents in mind.

Pakistan army has to join with us force and fight againt taliban. Remember once taliban ruled Afghanistan. Pakistan army has lot of failures in history. They may not good enough to fight against strong taliban.

We should not allow us forces on our soil
what is wrong with Taliban? what is wrong with sharia? it should be allowed in our beloved country. Taliban should take whole of the Pakistan , the government should surrender to taliban to avoid further destruction. for creating a islamic state our forefathers struggled with the British and Indians

Pakistan is not in position to protect itself against terrorism or extremists. I understand that Americans are already on our soil at mangla and other places. If we did not accept american proposal to train our army to fight against terrorist, Pakistan may become another BALKANISTAN in which millions may die. Pakistan is in horrible situation against extremists,Taliban and Al-qaida.We have no strong leadership to decide and fight.

Americans have UN approval in this war alongwith his allies.You pull back from this war, and whole world be on your back to destroy us.Pakistan is virtually helpless against talban and Economic problems and can only save itself with american help.

We need the joint operation because ,we are dependent Nation , we are the beggars ,we need the foreign aids to run our country , Our best institutions cant fight against Talban and they don’t dare to stop the US Army to ruin our country with drone attacks to kill our innocent Pakistanis . Our politicians are playing with nation and country for their personal interests ,they don’t have concern with national interest .Every one (Talban, US army , India ,our politicians )is playing their part to demolish our country . Don’t know when time will come ,when we will wake up to recognize ourselves a self-governing Nation .

If they say NO to US now,then it is not far when pakistan will be disintegrated into many small and fractional states.

Best thing would be that international forces should move in and control the state, before it is being controlled by the extremist.

Beggers are not choosers. I believe we have proved ourselves a failed state – in the sense of law, order, governance and the ability to earn our own bread.

I think it is quite obvious that Pakistan has not been able to manage the Talibans as they would have liked. The child is now the master and it would not be possible without the implicit help from sources within. Pakistan should join US in combating this menace. The US should on the other hand recognize that this menace will not go away till such time the clergy of Pakistan is reformed.

Reform the education system. Till then the drones should be allowed to operate and continued for as long as the change in faith is not brought about in Fata and other unruly lands in Pakistan. We need Pakistan not only in name sake but as an operational country.

Not just that but our mindset has produced policies that have severed the nation in 1971, thus nullifying the 2-nation theory – the basis of our existance. So before we self-destruct, I feel, lets get help from others.

This war can be fought only by using modern technology because enemy is hidden inside people like a virus in a body. Terrorists are integrated part of Pakistani society. Modern American technology can help separate those elements. I feel Pakistan lacks this ability due to extreme corruption, administrative ineffectiveness and outdated methods. Therefore, a combination of drone attacks with joint operations could be used.

What sovereignty, if Taliban take over Pakistan (which they have virtually). The killing of women, destroying music, destroying art and destorying the social fabric of the society is the Islam that Talibans believe. It is like a radio frequency that only broadcast what gives them power. The Taliban powers lies in the gang mentality.

The best way to destroy this mentality is to go after this with full force. Pakistan should not worry about external threats. Please concentrate on the enemy within first. God Bless Pakistan and America.

I think the administration in pakistan lives in self ego that they can control everything and the fact is that they cannot. What is problem in accepting the joint operation? I think the administration is having this thing in mind that if they accept the joint operations then foul play by Pakistani agencies will be highlighted.

I think, there is no doubt about it “In our country the only PAKISTAN Army has permission to operate against any sort of Terror.

We should arrange a full demonstration against the drone attacks & their future plans. there should be a demonstration day on that particular day a peaceful demonstration should be arrange & in the demonstration on Pakistani flags should be allowed. It can be arrange at a one particular spot in every city of the Country. People should move from home for that specified place without any political party’s banners or flags. It should need the help of media also to express the thoughts of Pakistanis. We should tell the world about our Unity. Think about it! Long Live Pakistan (Aamin).

Pakistan should never part away with its sovereignty, besides the proposal is preposterous considering what Americans have achieved in Afghanistan. Next time they will ask joint operations in other neighbouring countries!

Pakistan should not allow foreign boots on its soil. If US wants peace in region they must stop drone attacks which are counter-productive and adding fuel to the fire. On the other side Pakistan Govt. must adopt measures to calm down situation in NWFP, and immediately sign Swat Peace Accord.

I think it is quite obvious that Pakistan has not been able to manage the Talibans as they would have liked. The child is now the master and it would not be possible without the implicit help from sources within. Pakistan should join US in combating this menace. The US should on the other hand recognize that this menace will not go away till such time the Kashmir issue is solved. Like it or not, the two issues are linked and the sooner this is recognized, the better off all of us would be.

I say, what a hoodwink, ‘give me the drone we will fight the terrorist Taliban.’ How is it possible that they give this administrative tool to Pakistan, wherein so much of intricate technology has gone in. They will not part with it and the statement is knowingly made for this reason. This is the politics of all the politicians and the clever clergy of Pakistan. But for God’s sake let us be fair.

The nearest to drone Pakistan can do to excel this material wonder is in spritual progress. For this, change the lessons in education to children in the schools and in the houses. Teach of Moaddat – the unwavering love with the progenies of the Prophet SAWW. Till then the drones should be allowed to operate and continued for as long as the change in faith is not brought about in Fata and other unruly lands in Pakistan. We need Pakistan not only in name sake but as an operational country.

What the Pakistan government has done is fine, but the question should be — When will the Pakistan Government start the operation against these terrorists?

Beggers are not choosers.
I believe we have proved ourselves a failed state – in the sense of law, order, governance and the ability to earn our own bread.

Not just that but our mindset has produced policies that have severed the nation in 1971, thus nullifying the 2-nation theory – the basis of our existance.
So before we self-destruct, I feel, lets get help from others.

This war can be fought only by using modern technology because enemy is hidden inside people like a virus in a body. Terrorists are integrated part of Pakistani society. Modern American technology can help separate those elements. I feel Pakistan lacks this ability due to extreme corruption, administrative ineffectiveness and outdated methods. Therefore, a combination of drone attacks with joint operations could be used.

This might not sound good to many of us but we need clarity of mind to understand our situation. Ceteris paribus, the relations between the USA and us is like a doctor and patient.

Im an Indian, Pakistan has every right to say NO, but in current circumstances would that be preferable? Pakistan should understand that it has to stop abbetting militancy. It is creating a problem for itself. It should come out of that shell and be practical, coz there are many people across the borders who want frienship as its is good for both countries. Economies will improve. This will result in lessening budgets for military. Curb this Pakistan. You will have no fear from India. We cannot manage our own borders, forget invading a new territoty.

Well! I say NO! A firm no! No joint operations whatsoever. I think our army is fully capable of dealing with the bandits and extremists. However they might lack sophisticated weaponery or technological assistance which US should provide, if it’s sincere in this war against terrorism.

If joint patrols solves the issue then why not? Pakistan army will have Local Intelligence and US Army has the wherewithall and willpower – The soverignity argument is useless because US Army is anyway in Pakistan via drones and the sad truth is that Pakistan cant do anything about it. Guys when you are fighting for your life and very existence one needs to put the pride apart.

I think Joint Operation looks more face saving for Pakistan and its Army than unilateral DRONE attackes by American on its soil. How can Pakistan say no to Joint Operation when they have the UK Police probing an investigation in Pakistan currently?
I think Pakistani people and its Govenrment should oppose these Drone attacks more as its complete violation of sovereign Pakistan .

Pakistan has depicted a rare show of expressing its difference of opinion publicly with the US, something that it hasn’t done on countless occassions since its inception in 1947!

However the bottom line is that can Pakistan alone solve this? As of today the militants have recahed with in 100k of the capital, so i dont see any objective evidence of letting Pakistan alone handle it and see the positive results!

Our Army and our private military companies are quite capable of looking after our own home affairs, it is our army who has been used all along by the americans to wage this war on terror, and now they feel that they can just barge into my country and dictate their terms, these american soldiers have no chance in hell to overturn our people, even though they are trying to formulate ways into coming in full force into our territory, our army and our private military companies will not and should not allow them in. I feel our country was living in peace until the time USA smelt Oil and Gas in our vicinity.

What have the Americans achieved in Afghanistan after being physically there for more than eight years, and in Iraq since 2003?
With that track record, should we really allow their forces to operate in Pakistan? I dont think so.

I think that there should be no cooperation with US unless they stop drone attacks, remove all indian consulates and provide a plan for going back home. Pakistan can only help in their exit plan. The sooner it is, the better, or else, as it seems, Afghanistan will be Obama’s Iraq!!

The DAWN editorial says it all:

“On the Pakistani side it has to be accepted that this is primarily a fight for our own survival. Right now the militants have the upper hand and we need to put more boots on the ground and improve intelligence-gathering to reverse the tide. If we can’t defeat the enemy, others may feel justified in filling the breach.”

Pakistanis need to understand what is at stake here for the US. Most Americans now agree Bush made a big mess by going to Iraq without taking care of Al Qaeda and Taliban. Americans fear that if left alone, Al Qaeda with the help of Taliban will continue to plot against the US and west. In other words, the US is fighting for its survival. The US is not going to stop until the Talibs are completely rooted out, with or without Pakistan’s help. They just don’t have any other options left but to pursue Talibs no matter where they are. No matter what the cost is.

I feel many here think the US is out to tear apart the state of Pakistan. If that is what they wanted, they could have done it in a year. But if Pakistanis give them no other options, they will do what they have to, to prevent attacks.

As far as letting the Pakistanis themselves taking care of the problem at hand, well it was tried for more than 5 years and the Talibs have only become stronger. The US is convinced the Pakistan army and ISI are aiding the Talibs, whether that is accurate or not. Just because Pakistanis shout a strong “NO” to the US request, do you all really believe the US will pack their bags and leave?

definitely tying up with usa is a good option,it will only help in stabilising pakistan which in turn will be useful for there long term prosperity. i think this is the time for all the pakistanis to think what they want- a prosperous pakistan or pakistan under brutal and barbaric taliban.We indians also want a peaceful and prosperous pakistan taking help from any friend.

My comments may hurt some of you but as an unbiased person I truly beleive my opinion is objective. Sovereignity only comes in play when you can control your boundries, provide security internally, and make sure your boundries are not used to launch hatred/terrorism across other countries. The hard fact is that the theoretical assumptions of a “sovereign nation” are not holding true, and Pakistan military is unable to control the terrorists and Taliban. This WILL cause a major upheaval in world security “again” – what we are seeing now is nothing. To manage this I’m in full support of not only joint operations but a “real” comprehensive ground war involving multiple countries. I feel that a “big” problem is that people living in Pakistan are becoming “immune” to terrorism. Please understand if not controlled NOW, it will not stay a Pakistani problem – it will become a problem like in Afghanistan and Germany during WW2, where everyone needs to step in “TAKE CARE” of the problem.

I hope common sense will prevail – focus on the “problem” and solve it. No one is interested in taking over Pakistan. Everyone is concerned about terrorism.

Pakistani public and leaders alike are unfortunately not realizing the gravity of the threat that the country faces. The barbarians are not only at the gates, they have entered the cities and are within striking distance of the center of power in Islamabad and Lahore. It is time for all of Pakistan to wake up.

As somebody stated as a comment ‘when your house is about to come crumbling down due to a fire, you want to get all the help that you can to extinguish it and save your home’. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda are treacherous enemies for whom there is absolutely no loyalty to Pakistan as Islam does not consider nationalism to be desirable. Their goal is nothing short of bringing the entire world under a Caliphate with their brutal interpretation of Islam as the law.

Pakistan desperately needs to decrease the all encompassing hold of religious fanaticism over every facet of life especially fueled by the proliferation of religious programs over the electronic media.

There needs to a massive PR to gain people’s support that the savages who are slaughtering innocent people day in and day out are not our MUSLIM BROTHERS and need to be eliminated. The American drones are doing exactly that; eliminating the top leaders of Al-Qaeda and their foreign fellow travellers. Rather than opposing this policy, the Pakistani government should eagerly request expansion of this policy to Taliban in NWFP, Swat and Balochistan.

How can US ask for joint military operation inside Pakistan’s borders, No sovereign nation can allow such a operation. Pakistan has to fight militancy by it self without anyone’s help. Remember “God helps those who help themselves”.

Drone technology should not be given to Pakistan, because soon it will be in the hands of Chinese. Pakistan already does not enjoy any sovergnity over much of it, because it is already shared by the Taliban. It is good fortune that USA has made fighting this menace its own cause. If this help from a well meaning friend is rejected Pakistan will soon find itself at the mercy of Taliban and that will mean goodbye education, goodbye progress. Infact goodbye everything worth fighting for in the world.

In my point of view, Pakistani Military does have the will and capability to fight the internal insurgencies but the volatility of the eastern border doesn’t let them focus on the capricious situation in NWFP. It’s extremely wrong to assume that Pakistani Military with the possession of current weaponary and technology, can’t take a group like Taliban where they have proven defensive capabilities to sustain full blown war with India. No armed forces in this world has the capability of taking volatility on multiple fronts.

Saying that, joint operation is not a great idea because at the end of the day, Pakistani police have to bare the responsibility of the security as US presence diminishes from this region. So, NWFP Police should be appropriately trained with anti-terrorism, anti Narcotic and counter-insugency, advanced criminal investigation with latest technology in forensics and proper equipment. This way they would be called in for any ambushes and criminal activity instead of the army.

Does Pakistan’s NO matters ? US will do whatever serves its own intrest and your leaders know it. I really feel sorry for patriotic pakistanis. I wish no country has to go through this. You are caught between the devil and deep sea. Situation is out of control. I fear , though i wish not, something terrible will happen in the region.

Absolutely Justified! This is one of those few moments where we feel proud that Pakistan is taking a stand – A Nation with a Backbone stands firmly to safeguard it’s Sovereignty and Dignity.

How come it took more than 6 years to locate the FM radio transimissions of Baitullah Masood ?

So how can anyone believe, that they were hard to trace ?

Obviously some higher ups should have been tacitly supporting the FM radio broadcasts.

Why are they supporting, what is their agenda, who is giving money to Baitullah ?

We need answers to those hard issues.

God bless my nation to fight these criminals. I see no problems in fighting jointly with US.
These our common enemies. They have misused our faith. Allah will see them.

I feel Pakistan’s army is hand in glove with the Taliban. US must pursue terrorists on their own in the territory not in “control” of the governement. This is bound to happen. One more attack by some crazy guy in Europe or US and Pakistan should prepare – for another partition.

Are people really in their right mind when they think we should consider American ‘assistance’ in combating the Taliban? People who are suggesting this have no idea about the ground realities in Pakistan. it is hard enough trying to form a national consensus as to whether we should be involved in this ‘war OF terror’ in the first place. The only way forward is for the Pakistani establishment to gain some backbone and formulate and execute an indigenous policy which is in our national interest. America has been in Afghanistan for almost a decade, and what have they achieved? It has been an unmitigated disaster. Iraq looks like it is about to emplode any moment, but I believe that will probably happen once America withdraws. They will leave Afghanistan, squarely fixing the blame on us.

They are advancing to the other settled parts of Pakistan. Also emboldened by peace treaty. There should be no peace treaty with killers and gun totting fanatics. If PAK military can not contain and destroy them, then they should have joint operation with USA. STOP PEACE TREATIES ELIMINATE AND NEUTRALIZE THE ENEMY(TALIBANS THE CANCER FOR WHOLE HUMANITY)

Are we sure that our political System and our Armed Services have common objectives?
Then only could we resolve this issue viz
can US and Pak Armed forces have common agenda? Are we unanimous that we want to get rid of terrorism?

It seems that given the movement of the Taliban in Bunder (spelling?) region, I’m moving towards Pakistan letting the US help out. It seems to me that Pakistan cant stop the Taliban and its for Pakistan’s best interests to have the US help.

I am a student in USA from Pakistan.
I would agree that ISI is in a better shape to gather intelligence than the drones. If Americans need to get something done, they need to trust us and give us the weapon technology they have, including but not limited to the drones. Last time i heard, Pakistan Airforce designed some of their own drones? Why can’t USA fund such programs.

All in all, more than a million Americans right now would be jobless had it not been for the “War on terror,” Maybe its just me but didn’t America take the Taliban freedom fighters with them to help fight off the Soviets in the 1980s?

As a Pakistani American I feel I am in a better position to understand the frustration on the both ends. However, I think it is time to follow through. Pakistanis need to understand that America is not an evil empire and America under President Obama is a very different country from Bush’s one man state.

What sovereignity, if Taliban take over Pakistan (which they have virtually). The killing of women, destroying music, destroying art and destorying the social fabric of the society is the Islam that Talibans believe. It is like a radio frequency that only broadcast what gives them power. The Taliban powers lies in the gang mentality.

The best way to destroy this mentality is to go after this with full force. Pakistan should not worry about external threats. Please concentrate on the enemy within first. God Bless Pakistan and America.

I personally think, Pakistan should accept the proposal on two conditions. First that America will not leave Afghanistan until peace is restored. Second, that America makes Afghan government accept and recognize the Durand Line a national border.

Pakistan should be provided with full assistance to eliminate the terrorists. US should respect the sovereignity, and let the Pakistani military operate with full equipments. Joint operationsm in my opinion, simply means America does not have enough faith in Pakistan’s military capabilities. They just lack equipments. Why not first let Pakistan army try.

Frankly Speaking, because of Pakistan’s this stance against America has given me a feeling of freedom and sovereignty even more then the day we restored our constitutions judiciary. Hope Pakistani administration will continue with this great approach to fight against terrorism, in fact this kind of behavior is it self a symbol of defeating terrorism and a challenge to all those anti Pakistan forces.

The situation in central asia-afghanistan is a deja vu of 80s, just the number of players have been increased resulting in surge in terrorism.
War on terror has became multi billion dollar industry.

As an American who has an affection toward the people of Pakistan, I say that only Pakistan should conduct military exercises within its own country. Perhaps the only exception in the case of fighting the Taliban is to request a limited amount of assistance from some Muslim countries. That kind of force would be a pschological boost for Pakistanis who want peace and a blow to extremists of all shades. But self-reliance and standing upon one’s own two feet is the answer to the problems of any nation. Pakistan is a great nation and it can be done – God willing.

I feel the Pakistan Army has failed in controlling the NWFP in several past attempts. The Taliban are aware of this weakness and are gaining more ground each day.

If pakistan wants to defend the drone attacks, the military should prove that it is capable of controlling the areas of NWFP, or else work out other ways jointly with other nations like the U.S

Another alternative is use of Air power by the Pakistani Air force in these areas which is not done till date and prove to the US that drone attacks are not necessary. The ISI is anyday in a better position to gather intelligence than the US drones.

Even though Pakistan has every right to say “NO” to joint operation in the tribal areas but on the other side Pakistan can not defeat these evil terrorists on their own. These terrorists MUST be cleaned out from Pakistan territory otherwise this war will stay on forever and many innocent Pakistani citizens will continue to lose their lives that’s what Pakistan can not afford. I would say “YES” to joint operation.

I am an Indian citizen and I feel that all measures (including joint US-Pak operations)are required if the taliban is to be contained. Some of the posts above me lamented on the loss of sovereignity etc. which joint operations imply. However there would not be too much left of Pakistan (sovereignity included) if the taliban were to come to power in Pakistan. After all, it does not need too many taliban to take over Pakistan – there is not too much one can do against suicide bombers!

rizvi29@gmail.com

Pakistan has done the right thing by refusing joint action. It is just like the Americans to slowly inch their way towards occupation by asking for more cooperation.

To be honest the fight in the tribal areas will never be won militarily – just pick the history books, this area can’t be tamed.

I feel its about time that Pakistan makes a stand and decides for itself which path it needs to take. There are other friends out there – the Chinese, hey even the Russians might be better choices than the Americans. Let’s be practical, this war on terror is not just about imminent threats to American interests, it is all about establishing American hegemony in this part of the world to neutralise resurrgent China and Russia.

We need to step out of the American shadow and make a mark for ourselves. It will be tough, but how much more tougher can it be then what we are facing right now?

Yes. Certainly pakistan is right to say “NO” because there is no room for any operation inside Pakistan in the UN Security Council resolution passed after 9/11. Secondly the people of pakistan are are deadly against such expedition. Thirdly, a resolution passed by the Pakistani parliament in October 2008 clearly rules it out. I think USA should not press for a joint operation as this will adversely affect her interests in the area.

Dr. Fakhr-ul-Islam

i think joining hands with anyone to beat the taliban should be accepted.. personal differences can be sorted later with the USA.

On second thoughts as i had mentioned earlier .. if pakistan joins hands with russia. USA will definitely do more and not put pressure on pakistan to gain pakistans support in the war.

Given the anti-Americanism our leaders harbour in our public, I think it was wise to decline offer to joint operations.

Further allowing joint operations would have meant a clear hands’ up.

If the house is on fire, it would be suicidal to tell the fire fighters to douse the fire only from outside and not come into the house ‘because it is a question of privacy and autonomy’.

Someone here suggested that USA and or Afghanistan might be plotting to annex NWFP. Considering that NWFP contributes less than 10% of Pakistan’s GDP but more than 90% percent of Pakistan’s problems and that “strategic depth” is no longer a valid concept, why not give away the NWFP and FATA, and build a fence with some of the US dollars? That automatically solves the contentious issue of joint strikes too.

I was going through the comments. As an Indian I don’t want to say anything on this matter. Just wanted to know what a common man from Pakistan see about this problem. It is an emphatic NO.

Yes that is a correct decision not to do joint operation. United States knows pakistan army is well capable to do the job alone but i believe they want to dictate pakistan army. We should support pakistan army as well as isi in this matter, and we should not forget history that where ever united states go they make that country hell.

Well its time to fight our own war this is not a bilateral war where we are dictated and run by a superpower. They dont know about our people and what ways there are to mend fences.

Bombing is not an option, talks , negotiations and truce is the way forward. In this casualty its we pakistanis dying at both fronts. I beleive we can handle the situation and not compromise on the idealogy of this nation.

Joint operation in FATA will be counter productive; it will produce hate for the newly established democratic government and army in Pakistan which result in defeat and failure of all stakeholders of war against extremism that’s why Pakistan right to say “No”. US should follow the policy of direct and indirect interactions with Taliban’s through the intelligence agencies of India and Pakistan. The trust and cooperation between India and Pakistan will produce a better playing field for the US in this region to win the extremist hearts.

Making peace with such barbarians in SWAT was a complete failure of the government. Now there are two things which can be true. Either the army does not want to eliminate the taliban or it is unable to do so. In both cases we need external help so the sooner we do this the better. What sovereignity are we talking about when half of NWFP is outside the writ of the government?

Pakistan should get rid of Baitullah Mesud itself. The man had been pointed out to the US twice as sitting duck and no action was taken by US. We need to take things in our hands and get rid of the black sheep amonst us.

Drone attacks must be stopped immediately to stop hellfire in Pakistan and negate the justification of Baituallah Mehsud to destroy Pakistan in the name of Drone attacks.

We are one of the biggest army equipped with necessary arms to counter black sheep amongst us. More US interference, the more terorrism is the bottom line.

I agree with Samir.

The reality is that we Pakistanis can not do anything by ourselves. Why shouldn’t we co-operate with US? We need their support to fight against Taliban. Otherwise this country will be taken over by them. No hope for the next generation, no visiters will come to this country…do you want that future??
And we have to be open to other countries especially India…think more flexibly.

Absolutely! Americans are under the delusion that they can cope with the problem better. They have yet to win a fair battle in their history. So far all they have done is relied on media propaganda to declare a win. (vietnam, iraq, iraq-2, afghanistan, afghanistan-2 and now pakistan).
The only way Americans can help is by going away and staying in their own small bubble of a world. The presence of foreign military (mind you not the people) is possibly the core aggravating factor I think. Everybody likes a bimbo cause they entertain well, but functionally speaking they are useless. You can draw the analogy as you see fit.

I think its the right time for Pakistan to review its post 9/11 policy towards Americans as well as other regional countries most importantly India, Afghanistan and Iran. There should be a holistic change in our approach towards the so called “War on Terror” and other regional issues including Occupied Kashmir and the Kashmiri freedom Struggle.

India sooner or later would have to come to the table any way.

The bottom line is that Pakistan must now protect its National interest and take its friends in confidence especially the great Chinese.

I still think people are divided on taliban and USA. Recent events have only shamed and tainted pakistan on the world front. More over the so called taliban who once thought all pakistanis were brothers are now targeting their own people in the name of islam which is disturbing.

I think no one has ever gained from the support of USA. Sometimes I think pakistan should have joined hands with the Soviet Union who do not put their nose in other country matters after the USSR was broken down to just Russia. Wherever USA has gone, it has been followed by sadness and total disintegration of that place. Divide and rule was once practised by the British … now its been practised by the USA … History is repeating again … The difference is now its pakistanis against pakistanis.

Sometimes i think it was a big mistake to break Pakistan away from India. maybe People knew that one day if India and Pakistan joined forces then it would have put everyone behind as a superpower. But unfortunately we are divided. And now if pakistan is further divided then one day there will be no pakistan … but maybe different countries like the Islamic state of Sindh , Republic of Punjab and State of Sharia Taliban.

Pakistan needs U.S. assistance in SWAT Valley and other areas controlled by the Taliban. It is beyond the Pakistani army to control the situation now.

Joint operations by U.S. and Pakistani forces would be a better solution than drone attacks, which harbors hateful sentiments by FATA tribal towards Islamabad and others.

There should not be two opinions about the Talibans being crushed as early as possible. As these people don’t believe in dialogue and just want to impose their will on the whole nation. It is a great misunderstanding that Talibans are killing innocent people just because of American presence in Afghanistan & Pakistan’s support to US forces. In fact they want to impose their brand of Islam in Pakistan, which is based on cruelty & hate. The US exit from Afghanistan will not stop Tablibans subversive activities.

It could be a point of discussion that how they should be elimanated. I believe US and Pakistan’s joint operation will not be fruitfull in the long term. US should support, help and encourage Pakistan to tackle this problem. The US policy to dominate & dictate will not help in this case.

I personally believe Pakistan should not allow America to enter Pakistan. Pakistan’s government should take the responsibility and build the confidence of the local people. America will not stay here we will stay here. This is our problem to solve. We should talk to our people and put confidence in them ask them to develop themselves. America should take care of her own states. It’s not her jurisdiction to interfere. May God help Pakistan and May Pakistan live forever.

Yes, get rid of the Barbarians (Taliban). But it seems that Pakistan alone cannot do it. US help under Pakistani control is necessary. Taliban are the greatest enemy of Pakistan.

US is offering plenty of civilian help for education and other civil uplift work in Pakistan. But most of it will go into corruption. When Zardari and company hears ‘no blank check’ they become disinterested. I believe that this is the reason why Pakistani government is taking a tough stand against US – they want US to soften its control on money. They want a ‘blank check’.

If 10 people are killed in a drone attack, at least 5 to 6 of them are always notorious militants.
The drones would stop coming if we cut the hollow patriotic bull, pull up our socks and go after the militants who so conveniently are able to “hide” from the local forces but get exposed by the drones.
The drone attacks are in our interest. And we should be more concerned about our interests than the cheap stakes held by our right-wing media.

I believe the fundamental aim is to destroy all terrorists training centres / militia hideout’s so that these camps are not used against America in Afghanistan, Pakistan in Pakistan and Kashmir in India. Being the epicentre of terrorism, this is a vital step towards global security.

Look at Americans, they wanted to destroy Soviet Union and they did; they wanted to control oil from Iraq & gulf states, they did; they wanted to keep China progress in check, they did by supplying India access to nuclear materials; now they want to dismantle terror hubs and training camps in Pakistan, and believe me they will do it.

The next step will be to destroy training camps in Pakistan administered Kashmir.

American’s could say that Osama has fled to Pakistan administered Kashmir, so they have reasons to attack that part as well. This is a systematic operation to dismantle Pakistan, which is utmost important for their security.

Pakistan’s foreign policy has been the policy of the Americans for the past 8 years and if the government fails to stand up and confront anti-Pakistan elements it would put the people of Pakistan in a pit of demoralization. However, Pakistan fights its own war now and it SHOULD not allow any Nato troops to enterPakistan or violate its airspace. Tribal empowerment through education, economic development is the answer and the solution to route out the taliban. Pakistan Paindabad!

Of course! The last Pakistan completely trusted US, in 80’s, we paid heavily for it and are still paying. So we would be really retarted to go by US agenda again and not what suits us best in the long run. We do not want a civil war just to please americans!

@ Asad
“I think there are very few people who are against the drone attacks actually.
These guys must remember that Pakistan is our identity. If Pakistan does not exist (which is a probability) then there will be no place for them either.”

First of all these very few people account for 90% of Pakistanis. Your suggested solutions are more likely to threaten Pakistan’s existence.

@ Sudhakar
“Can Pakistan handle the situation using their own forces? If not, join US.”

The real question is can Pakistan handle the situation after the joint strikes???

I fully agree with Mr. Qureshi, who has given a clear message to united states, in fact this message should have given much more ealier, for whom and for what pakistani govt. was waiting? Is Zardari under some pressure? Why don’t they stand like Ahmed Nijadi of Iran and Hugo Chavis or Cuba?

Rejecting US is a sane decision, I don’t know. Does it really matter?

May be it is just too late to say NO now? We have been taking some so called ’strategic’ decisions, and sooner or later we have to pay back for them.

Will US accept our REJECTION open heartedly? Can we defend the pressure of US with our ‘thin line’ of patriotism? How many of our youth is willing to take the challenge? and fight for Pakistan? Do we even care? I guess no.

…. Yeah right.

We should also become the 53rd state of United States of America.

The question is whether Pakistan wants Taliban rule or a democracy. If it is the former then the answer is NO but if it is the latter then it poses a further question, is the Pakistan military able or willing to crush the Taliban?

If the answer to either one is a no then the Pak government has no choice but to seek outside help. The territory of Pakistan has already been invaded both by the Taliban as well as the US, so the question of territorial integrity is no longer valid but the larger question of survival of the Pakistan nation certainly is.

Referring to Iqbals opinion, i would ask would israel, india or united states allow such actions in their countries? If the answer is yes, then such actions are allowed universally everwhere. The world would be a disaster zone according to this approach of international dispute resolution. The soultion should come from within pakistan. Our ‘independent and soveriegn’ parliament should take issues in their own hands and show how potent and capable they are to handle the situation. They should come equal to their claim, which i very much doubt. The solution and solution makers are in the assembly, they need to take up the courage and show their resolve and ability.

People have to realise, that Pakistan has the threat of its own existence since its independence. Neither India nor USA, but Islamic Taliban is its greatest enemy.

We have to start thinking in a positive and progressive way. Do we want our mother, sisters or daughters to live in a constant threat of coercion and terror? Do we justify, in the name of Islam that the future generation be thrown to the barbaric society of 5th century? Generations to come be deprived of modern education of science, math, art, music, medicine, engineering, architecture and social sciences? Are our children going to better their lives by studying in madrassas? Can any graduate from madrassa build bridges, do the accounting or treat as a doctor? Can he be productive to the country or to the economy except spreading the hate doctrine of talibani Islam? Where are we going?

First and foremost, we should make modern education compulsory for the future generation. That will prevent them to fall from wrong Islamic influences. We should remove all the trade barriers. It will increase our influence in the world arena.
And finally, bring peace to our international relations. It will save money for the uplifting of our people. Muslims in India can come in FORBES list of richest people or become a President or Captain of the cricket team or be the heartthrob stars of billion people in Bollywood.

We should stop worrying about Muslims in INDIA and start worrying about Muslims in Pakistan. They are much better of as minority then us as a majority in our own country. We must take support of USA with certain reservations and defeat the taliban or otherwise we will be prisoners of TALIBAN PAKISTAN. Our country will be divided in to many parts. The future of our kids will be dark and all our dreams shattered.

Why should we allow the US for a Joint operation with Pakistan, we have faith and we will support our Army at any cost including the ISI.
I think the US just wants a way in to enter the territory of Pakistan with there troops and we will not welcome the US army at any cost for a joint operation with the Pakistan army as we know what Pak army, pak air force, pak navy are capable of.

They are very capable and highly trained to take on this battle.

Since Pakistan is fighting for its own survival and doesn’t want to be told how to do it, why don’t you tell US to keep its money and at the same time make peace with your neighbors and fight terrorism/militancy as a common enemy.

Pakistan must be firm in wanting to defend its own strategic inetrests by not letting anyone interfere in own affairs in the total sense of the term. There have been serious indications for some time that the West including Washington has sinister geopolitical motives agaist Pakistan.

Haha! I cant believe I’m listening to Pakistani’s saying that there is an option of saying ‘YES’ to this outrageous US suggestion.
Isnt it enough that we got into this trouble in the first place beacsue of US-Aid?

I’m waiting for a day when our dear government and ‘englightened’ people realise that if you let the ‘talibans’ be the way they are, they wont say a single word to anyone who ‘claims’ to be a muslim (yes im including the whisky weeling muslims aswell).
All they want to do is stop the American occupation in Afghanistan, if Pakistan gets in their way – they mess with Pakistan.

And trust me when I tell you this, they CAN NOT be eliminated. There is NEW ‘taliban’ (the ones who mind their business until messed with) mentality growing in the elite class of Pakistan right now. If our dear American allies show up, I guarantee you, you’d see college graduates taking up arms to defend their countries and religons name.

What sovereignty are we talking about? Part of the country is being ruled by taliban, scores of foreign terrorists are living in the country and it seems our government is completely helpless in controlling the situation. I guess we should allow Americans to help us eliminate these animals.

Pakistan should only think about one point: Can Pakistan handle the situation using their own forces? If not, join US.

It is not wise to ignore the ‘truth’ and give importance to false prestige.

If accepting US command is an issue, have specific talks with US on how troops of both countries should work with each other.

Barbarians you say. What’s your definition of that? Killing innocent people? Well then the US government heads that list.
The US drone attacks are arousing anger amongst the militants and the Pakistani citizens are being targeted by them.

The military has achieved little if anything. Instead of spending $300 million on an F 22, they can spend $1 million to plant a school and provide it with security.

I feel the US government has as little intelligence as these “barbarians”. It’s hard to tell the difference between the two.

A joint operation will turn “Strategic Depth” in to “Strategic Death” for the army and agencies if they continue with fanciful dreams.

Time is running out for Pakistan military misadventures.

PLEASE READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

Pakistan should tell the U.S. Officials to immediately cease the drone attacks citing their ineffectiveness against the high value targets plus the mounting number of civilian casualties they are causing. Drone attacks are not only counter productive, they are also fueling the anti American sentiment throughout the country.

American leadership needs to be told in a firm manner about the difficulties Pakistan is facing in this so called war on terror. After all, no country has done more or suffered more at the hand of extremists than ours.

American leadership should also tone down their lingo on the ‘blank cheque’ per se. Their average expenditure in Iraq and Afghanistan is 6-8 billion dollars per week; and they are worried about 5 billion ‘promised’ dollars to Pakistan over the period of five years; which most probably will be spent through USAID as it is. It just sounds a bit funny given the math at the back end.

I personally feel that its the first time ever Americans have initiated a reach out policy to the people of Pakistan. The drone attacks are not helping in this cause.

Losing a battle is still better than losing the war all together. Our leadership needs to toughen up its language when dealing with Americans and follow up with action if necessary. The Government would have the support of masses if they take a principled stance.

The Pak government should say YES to joining the US.
Number of drone attacks should be increased.
There will be no peace unless and until we crush by force all talibans.

I think there are very few people who are against the drone attacks actually.
These guys must remember that Pakistan is our identity. If Pakistan does not exist (which is a probability) then there will be no place for them either.

As I have already requested in my previous messages, when will Dawn organise a virtual vote on this issue?

Joint operation with US forces I believe would mean that the Pakistan Army is a subservient to the US army and will operate under their command and control authority. Since the objectives and destinations of two armies are sometimes totally different from each other, the refusal of Pakistan was absolutely, principally and practically correct.

How can a state claim its soverenity in the presence of barbarian acts like drone attacks? Pakistan Government has no option except to say a big “NO” to defend its territorial integrity.

Pakistan Army and the ISI are assets and the last hope for Pakistan. But at the same time they must understand that only if they act under the constitution of Pakistan, the people will stand by them and support them. If they act otherwise, I feel the people of Pakistan should come out against the invaders like the world had seen on March 15, 2009. Enough is enough.

Enough is enough. That was the message Shah Mahmood Qureshi conveyed to his interlocutors from the US.
If joint ground operations are allowed, where will be the difference between an occupied Afghanistan and a “free” Pakistan?

In my opinion, the entire country will explode. Unless the US has in mind other sinister strategies such as joining FATA and NWFP with Afghanistan to facilitate a unified command and support an independent Balochistan, it should desist from its aggressive actions.

I have no idea what our leaders are waiting for? By the time they implement their ‘whatever’ strategy, the taliban would have killed half the security forces and the other half would have fled. Please send the military, do target killings, join the US, do whatever necessary to get rid of these barbarians!