Dawn.com invites its readers to debate current affairs in this forum.
Pakistan rejected on Tuesday a US proposal for joint operations in the tribal areas against terrorism and militancy as differences of opinion between the two countries over various aspects of the war on terror emerged. The proposal for joint operations in the tribal areas had been floated by US presidential envoy for the region Richard Holbrooke and Joint Chief of Staffs Admiral Mike Mullen during a series of meetings with the civilian and military Pakistani leadership.
During meetings on Tuesday, US officials were told that continuing drone attacks inside Pakistan’s territory were counter-productive and Pakistan requested that drone technology be shifted to the Pakistan Army. US officials were also told that it would be difficult to bridge the trust deficit if statements maligning the ISI kept coming from the US and if US officials kept ignoring the contributions of the Pakistan Army and ISI in the war on terror.
Do you think the Pakistani decision to refuse to conduct joint operations in FATA is correct? Should Pakistan’s cooperation with the US in the war on terror be made conditional on the cessation of drone attacks? How best can the US proceed without the support of the Pak Army and ISI?
ps: The solution:
1) please elect the chief justice as your president… defy American resistance
2) Form a three way dialogue between Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. Come up with a game plan to curb Indian influence in Afghanistan. India’s influence in the region is not productive. Pakistanis and Afghanis should look out for each other.
3) Leave the Americans out in the cold.
4) If you need money ask Iran for help. China will most likely not come forward at this stage. Unless you can offer some business rewards.
I just read a report by the new president of the MacArthur foundation. It is the largest grant giving foundation in the USA. The current president of this foundation is essentially calling for dismantling Pakistan and putting it under the control of Russia, China, etc,..
To the ordinary Pakistani and Afghani: please realize that it is only through unity and a lot of intelligent moves will be able to get out of this stranglehold. The world is against us… and they have played with our lives too much,
I wish Pakistan was not being strangled this way.
I wish the ordinary Pakistanis would understand what is at stake here. When you lose your country you lose everything!
Americans do not care for Pakistan. If they are not kicked out they will destroy Pakistan.
Pakistanis need to understand that the Americans do not care for them one iota.
I am a Proud Pakistani. First off all, we are a sovereign nation.
Initially Taliban were created by the foreign policies of USA and its allies to finish the Cold War against Russians. They were armed by guns and guess where did the money came from? I am sure that everyone knows that Pakistan is a poor country and cannot afford to buy arms for them. Secondly till date they are being funded from somewhere and we are not willing to go into the roots of this funding which again cannot come from Pakistan.
I can never support a joint operation in our motherland. Why are these so called friends of Pakistan so afraid to share intelligence with us and if they are giving us the funds? they are forgetting that this is being used by us to eliminate the menace of Taliban!
No one besides a Pakistani can and should operate in our homeland. I have never heard of USA saying the same thing about Indian Kashmir as well. Why? Because, Indians ensure that they are respected. We should do the same looking at the examples of our neighbors.
look at the history, it tells us how to trust.
Firstly we should ask where these so-called Talibans came from, who created them and what external interests are still manipulating these puppets?
The Pakistan Government shouldn’t have stood by with the drone attacks anyways. Atleast now they have realised the way the US has started treating Pakistan.
Based on the current loan ties with foreign countries Pakistan is not in any position to say no.
If Pakistan really wants to stand up as a proud nation, government of Pakistan have to stand up and fix its own house of Politicians who have been skimming the country since the fall of President Ayub government.
Pakistan need to get rid of corruptions. Government will have to start by cleaning its own house first.
Stop giving the MNAs and MPA, millions of dollars, who have no accountability on how they use the money given to them to spend on their constituency development.
Select an honest government.
The issue of Sovereignty is a moot point.
The real issue is whether the Pakistani Army has the will to fight the militants. The argument that they may not have the ability is hogwash — how can a professionally trained army with tanks, helicopter gunships and heavy artillery be held hostage by people with a few bombs and small arms?
India fought against the same people, crushed them and established democratic elections that saw overwhelming participation from the local people recently. I refuse to believe that the Pakistani Army is so inferior comparatively that they continue to lose battle after battle against a vastly inferior militia.
So, no, the question is not whether they have the ability. They do. The question is whether they have the will to fight.
If they do, then by all means prove it and retake Swat and parts of Balochistan, and establish the writ of the constitution there.
If they do not have that will, then get out of the way and let more capable people like the US do the job for them.
When the very survival of your country is at stake, you have no choice. What would you rather have — talk of Sovereignty today and no Pakistan tomorrow, or have a Pakistan that becomes a reflection of Jinnah’s vision of a moderate and progressive country?
Hey Gruv,
Your concerns with Pakistan is very much eminent as it deals with future of your country also.
One way which was suggested and forced by Pakistan over a long period in the past – was the way for peace. The decision we took to make this world a better place to live in.
However the hope was thwarted to some extent by Indian actions.
Indians talks of Kashmir – But human rights violations continued and it backed away from the Kashmir issue.
The place where people were dying for freedom for 60 Years and India doesnt want to stop these killings.
They are trying the utmost best by fueling into destabilizing Pakistan by pushing in money and resources to separatist groups.
The ground reality of the situation is America is fleeing away from the war in Afghanistan. Leaving the Talibans to merge with Kashmiri militants and create problems for India.
Moreover, Pakistan economy is on reviving track – if you are looking at the news KSE is growing so rapidly that its expected to go beyond where it was before.
In my opinion, Yes of course, Pakistan must accept joint operations proposal as it will reduce Pakistani soldiers casualties which will then divide among Pakistani and U.S. Soldiers and it will also reduce economy and other burdens on Pakistan.
This is a golden opportunity for Pakistan to share the losses with U.S. It is high time to deal with the Taliban with extreme force otherwise they may turn up in our cities.
if Pakistani forces are unable to deal them which apparently seems then why not invite U.S.?
To Quote a report from The Dawn:
‘Local people said that missiles had hit the highly protected compound of a Taliban commander, Maulvi Khaliq Noor. “The Taliban immediately cordoned off the area and retrieved the bodies and no one was allowed to go near the place,” they added.’
Shouldn’t the law enforcing agencies have cordoned of the area effected by the drone strike ?
What sovereignty is being discussed here?
By and large the SAsians countries the situation is not peaceful. Unfortunately, the position prevailing in neighboring nation of Pak appears to be precarious. The political picture, law and order are reportedly going from bad to worse.To cap this the economy is in doldrums. The inflation touching 20%; parity value of 1 USD going down to Rs 80: The columnist of the paper expressing satisfaction if the GDP matches the population growth. Should remind the writing of Bahadurshah Zafar “Us baug ka aalam kya hoga jehan har shaakh par ullu baithe ho’.
Therefore, militancy has to be kept at bay. The nation cannot afford to antagonise America, which has come forward with a semblance of help. Let better sense prevail with the authorities and the populace getting peace.
Pakistan will never be disintegrated. It will live through the ages inshallah.
All those Pakistanis who have this negative attitude, I request them to please show some optimism, have faith in the people of your country.
For people who support the fact that American troops should be allowed on Pakistani soil, I ask them one question and one questions alone.
“What have the American Troops achieved in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past 7-8 years”?
Again, We need ‘EQUIPTMENT’ not soldiers from the US.
Getting help from the US in solving this problem of militancy is one thing. I feel that the best way the US can help pakistan is by providing modern equipment such as attack helicopters and night vision goggles which Pakistan has been requesting for so long.
Joint Ops is a violation of Pakistani Territory. I think its very obvious.
We have enough fighting force, why not just well equip it?
I dont think that theres anything that the americans can do which the Pakistanis cannot, provided they have the same equiptment.
Secondly, If they don’t trust Pakistan to hand them the technology. Then this means they do not trust the Pakistani Government, the army and surely not any other security forces, and hence the people of Pakistan.
I am an Indian, a Hindu.
There was a time when I was wishing for a destruction of Pakistan by India going to war with Pakistan or by any other method. My feelings have changed for Pakistan especially after Pervez Musharraf came to Power. He may be very unpopular in Pakistan but he talked a lot of sense. Unfortunately he was not appreciated in Pakistan. Anyway, that is the right of the Pakistanis whom to choose as their leader.
Pakistan has spent 63 years of independence to try to out do India militarily. Everyone knows that this not going to happen. so they promoted terrorism in India in connivance with muhajidin and other terrorist groups no matter how much they deny it. They somehow feel that they need these thugs (taliban) to counter any preceived threat from India.
That is why the Pak Govt, Army and ISI never wanted to disband them and wanted to keep with them just in case. Without them Pakistan Govt feels extremely insecured.
First of pakistanis must understand that their serious enemy is not India or US. It is their own mindset and Talban.
For India it is very safe to have a democratic and prosperious Pakistan. We do want thugs as our neighbours. So I plead with all the Pakistanis to forget about India. Your house is burning. Show a little patriotism and courage and save your country. Forget about self respect now, take help from US defeat Tabilan and then you will have self respect automatically. Your survival is in question. So please save yourself
Good luck
In 1992-1993 Somalia UN mission, several Pakistani soldiers died, and US claimed that Pakistani forces are not capable enough. So they(US) themselves went in and got themselves into trouble and got stuck. Then they had to call Pakistan to come and rescue them, which Pakistan did.
Despite all the technology they have, US soldiers are not capable and not professional.
Friends, this whole “sovereign nation” thing is humbug. I say this because of 2 reasons. One, if Swat, Balochistan and much of NWFP is not under Pakistan’s control, how can you claim sovereignty? This is a case of double standards…if Taliban kill in Swat, you say nothing…if Americans fly drones, you speak of sovereignty!!! Two, America does this to Pakistan simply because Pakistan survives on American aid. As we speak, Pakistan is on the verge of bankruptcy. It is desperately seeking 5 billion dollars from US to avoid an economic crash.
You cant have it both ways. If you take money from US, it will demand something in return. If you really want to be called a soveriegn nation, tell the US to get out of Pakistan with its dollars, build up your own economy and establish rule of law.
My idea is not to offend my Pakistani friends…but to tell everyone that if you take a loan, can you avoid paying the EMI?
AOA,
Right now Pakistan army should do joint operations with Islamic scholars and teachers and work on educating themselves, militants and also rest of the people.
This particular war cannot be won without true knowledge of Islam, knowledge about local culture and history that led to their present situation.
Foreign non-Muslim intervention would make situation only worse as nobody trust them anymore.
Furthermore I think following situation may apply and ALLAH knows best:
From Translation of Quran:
49:9 If two parties among the believers begin fighting, then make peace between them. But if one of them transgresses against the other, then you fight against the one who has transgressed until it complies with the command of Allah. Then if it complies, make reconciliation between them justly and be fair. Surely! Allah loves those who are just and fair.
49:10 The believers are only brothers (in Islam). So make reconciliation between your brothers and fear Allah, so that you may receive mercy.
As being an Indian I support the fact that it is very difficult to allow a foreign power to bring its military in a sovereign nation. Obviously it supports the fact that Pakistani army as well us US are incapable of rooting out the taliban. May be a co-ordinated effort would help, but I hope an average Pakistani understands what would happen to them if they talibanise your own society.
They are a parasite, and just to comment on somebody who said leave taliban and they would not do anything is totally a false premise, its their job to kill and terrorise innocent people.
I am not sure if a military solution would ever exist, you need to kill their ideology bring them modern education and ethics !
Pakistan Government and the army should take the lead and stop terrorism in its country. There is no wrong seeking external help in eliminating terrorist from its soil.Need sincere ,committed leaders to the nation to put every thing under control.
Letting american boots onto our soil means setting a precedence for times to come.
Time is of essence in matters like these and we are slowly slipping into chaos. However, all is not lost and the menace we are dealing with, is not hard to overcome, the question is, Do we have the will. If the nation shows its muscle once again, we can oust this present government once and for all and believe me, all the pieces of the puzzle will fall in place if we can bring in a true leader who cares about this country. And if we dont realize then the circumstances will dictate our future and as the famous saying goes “If you let circumstances dictate your life, you will be a victim of circumstances”. Its just our nation that needs to unite against internal, external threats and of course our government’s dirty games.
I am a Indian.
I sincerely want Pakistan to do well and keeping that in mind I believe you should take whatever help you can get from whatever source to get rid of Taliban.
Keep an open mind
I personally think that it is all a game that US and Pakistani leaders are part of. Pakistani government is securing funding, and allowing US to invade Pakistani soil, while denying that we ever allowed them for drone attacks.
Isn’t Pakistani Army capable of stopping drone attacks? For sure they are! Then why aren’t they stopping US attacks on Pakistani soil? Because our government is charging US for each attack. You never know, SWAT might even have been sold to the US and Taliban.
US thinks that they are the Gods of the world, and they can attack anyone anywhere. If there were terrorists hiding in US soil, would they attack their havens in US? NO! Because, Americans are humans, and Pakistanis are not? Is that the reason?
This is the time for Pakistani people to unite, and fight back! If we wait for our politicians to do something, it will be too late!
Bulk of national budget is going to armed forces. If military can’t defend the country from enemy within, then cut it to size, just enough to parade on special occasions. All it takes a battalion of hard core, disciplined, motivated soldiers to eliminate likes of Bait Ullah.
For some reason some people think that if they shout loud enough America will back off. What they don’t understand is that Pakistanis have shown to be incompetent when dealing with terrorists. They still call them brothers and sisters. For them Lal Masjid attack is still something that was wrong. What they need is a fresh perspective. They should come out of their limited mindset that America will take over. If America wanted to take over, it would have done so very easily. But Pakistanis themselves realize that what is happening is not good for the ordinary people and if Pakistan fails they will have no place to go (politicians will all run to Dubai), they should allow Americans to come in and help them in finishing this threat once and for all. And then nobody should scream or shout when the Talibans and mullahs and politicians get removed by Americans. I really hope, pray, and wish that one day Allah will make Americans enter Pakistan and defeat the extremists.
America has to prove its ‘worth’ to pakistan by listening to Pakistan’s requirements because this is our area and we live in this neighbourhood not America.
I dont see US sanctioning India for its activities in Afghanistan and Kashmir yet Pakistan ‘always needs to do more’. How come?