Dawn.com invites its readers to discuss current affairs in this forum.
Earlier this week, President Asif Ali Zardari urged India to resume the process of composite dialogue without any conditions to jointly address common problems, including Kashmir and terrorism. Now, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has called for a peaceful partnership with Pakistan, which he argues is in his country’s vital interest.
On Tuesday, Dr Singh said, ‘I have believed India cannot realise its ambitions unless there is peace and prosperity in South Asia as a whole and if our neighbourhood is suffering from instability and turbulence that has direct bearing on our own evolution as a democratic polity committed to sustained growth and development.’
Do you think the threat of spreading regional militancy will pave the way for Pakistan and India to work together to combat terrorism? Is a détente in the offing? And are Pakistan and India ready to revisit the Kashmir issue in the prevailing socio-political climate?
All those interested in the India-Pakistan peace should read Irfan Husain’s column ‘Peace until proved innocent’ in yesterda’s Dawn and then decide weather the permanent peace between the two is possible. If Pakistan really means peace let it destroy all the training camps in Pak held Kashmir and stop talking about the Kashmir conflict for the solution of which it has fought three wars and which has high jacked its economic growth. Unless this is done all peace talk will have no meaning.In the meanwhile India has move on twards the development in almost all the sectors of the economy and human development.
There is no compelling reasons now for India to start dialogue with Pakistan. Let Pakistan come out of their own poisonous web of terrorism. There was a blast in Lahore and within minutes one paper has indicted India for that. How such elements in Pakistan have injected hatred into the minds of people against India could be seen. All the terrorist masterminds named by India are residing and loitering in Pakistani streets.
Whenever there is a problem in Pakistan PM Gilani raises Kashmir issue which diverts the attention of the Pakistanis from their problems. Where is the concern about the IDPs or poverty or economy. Pak is going in the wrong direction. My heart goes to the IDPS.
Kashmir is not the core issue between the two neighbours, its only an excuse…
An excuse exploited by leaders to exercise control over Pakistan…
Kashmir is an excuse for Indian politicians to hike defence budget and pocket kickbacks…
Kashmir is an excuse for foriegn powers to make millions out of selling useless arms to two foolish nations…
The fact remains that while Pakistan is economically, socially and militarily stretched, India can sustain border tensions indefinitely with far fewer consequences. The blame game can go on forever, but the wrong of the past are reflected in our respective futures. There is only one way for Pakistan to change course, and that is to barter it’s old compass for a new one.
India’s capabilities are only going to grow from here on in, with or without peace with Pakistan. Alas, this cannot be applied in reverse. It would be best, from Pakistan’s economic and strategic military point of view to make peace. f peace was to be made, Pakistan would certainly have far mroe to gain than India–from diversion of military resources to civilian development to the benefit of having a massive market right next door. Yes, if there was to be a war, Pakistan could make India bleed quite badly, but in aid of what? A Pyrrhic victory would do neither India nor Pakistan any good.
For the jingoists among us, let me quote Wilfred Owen’s rather bitter poem–
“My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori”
Firstly, the words “terrorist”, “militants”, “extremists” are being used rather carelessly nowadays. Next, the spread of regional militancy might cause the countries to sit together, this is definitely a possibility but what concrete results will be achieved from such a dialog? In my opinion it will only be an eye wash for the general public and yet another bread earner for the media of the two countries and nothing else. This is the way it has always been. The most important thing at this point is expose the source of this “militancy”. Where is the extremely efficient and adequate logistic support coming from for these “militants”.
It is absolutely possible to have good relation between Pakistan and India. If France and Germany in spite of the two great wars where they almost annihilated each other could rise up from the ashes and build the European community, why not us. Does anybody can claim that we Indian and Pakistani people are not as civilised and not as tolerant as the Europeans? Of course, there were some problems during some specific periods of the history of the subcontinent. But the state, the religious institutions and the society as a whole never allowed killing of the people for the sake of religion, like they did it in Europe where people were burned alive during the period of inquisition. So it is neither our genes nor religions which are responsible for the present situation. From India’s perspective, to great extent, it is the result of the short sighted visions of the Pakistani politicians in the past. Of course, it does not require great research to see clearly how they created the Frankenstein to help the west to defeat Soviet Union in one hand and to fight a proxy war with India with the other. Now the common people are experiencing the consequences in both the countries. In India it also helped the Hindu religious fundamentalists to weld unprecedented political power. I think if Pakistan starts really caring for its own people in future the course of history can be changed. By own people I do not mean the minority of the wealthy Pakistanis but the common people. However in India also everything is not perfect. But there is a at least a strong secular intellectual base in India, particularly in education system, which has so far successfully prevented the religious fanatics to determine the future of the country. There are two options for decent survival for the people of both these countries. Either you spend your wealth to enrich the western countries by increasing your defence spending and making your poorer and poorer, or you spend your wealth for the developmental projects for your own country. It pains me that we are still behaving like this.
Sam,
I do not think it has been ever proven that Army general has a swiss account. On contrary, some of civilian leadership did have swiss account. In fact some of civilian leadership has been charged and convicted in some cases of corruption. To my knowledge, there has been very few army general convicted of corruption.
Someone pointed out Pakistan obsessed with India. How about if I say India being obsessed with China. Pakistan has right to work for it interest and competing India and improve it standing.
Having said that, Indian should have maturity to acknowledge some truth. Whenever something happens for eg samjotha express, Indian always pointed finger at Pakistani.
Hey Sohail,
How can you say Pakistan had a inferiority complex from the start. When someone has inferiority complex, it mean he/she/state is inferior to other. So how can you Pakistan considered itself as inferior. If they had, they would not have seek partition. India at the time of partition was not seeking superpower status, and Pakistan was working to achive it goal, and working for a goal does not imply you are under inferiority complex. Maybe one can argue India has “superiority complex”. I am also not sure when you say history was on side of India. Pakistan was also part of history except that Pakistan was not a seperate state called Pakistan. Finally Pakistan can also claim of history by saying “Muslim ruled India for very long time”
I am from south of India. I just wanted to tell one thing to my Pakistani friends: majority of Indians want to be in peace and cooperation with Pakistan. Sadly some ultra nationalist jingoists in my country use opportunities like this forum to discredit that majority view. Just ignore their rants.
Detente between Pakistan and India is a cruel joke perpetrated by the Pakistani leadership and its equally immature knee jerk Indian counterpart on the hopes and aspirations of ordinary people for a peaceful coexistence between the two countries — on both sides of that unbridgeable divide.
Détentes will come and détentes will go — there will never be peace between India and Pakistan as long as the likes ‘Maulana’ Azhar and Hafiz Saeed — are allowed to roam free.
For the past decades — it has been a nauseating routine that whenever India and Pakistan start to come a little closer — the ‘maulanas’ at the instructions of their handlers — will be there to wreck the peace and start beating the drums of WAR — all over again between the two infantile countries.
Hello everyone,
I’m an Indian/Pakistani living in the United States. The reason why I do not want to make a distinction as to exactly where I am from is because it is a moot point. It doesnt matter. We are all brothers and sisters regardless. The problem is that people no longer have respect for one another. Who cares what religion you are and what country you are, and who cares what religion/country someone else is from, as long as we have respect for each other we can live as neighbors and friends.
Think back before the partition, how can any Pakistani person say that they dont have grandparents or greatgrandparents that are not Indian. It was all India before!! Same applies to anyone in India, who knows where your ancestors lived before and migrated to… they could have easily have come from Pakistani territories.
These two countries should take a close look at the European Union and take notes from them. They could easily form an IndoPak Union and share and combine resources and prosper even greater. Lets not be fanatical about this, lets try to create a diverse commerce within both countries. I have many Muslim friends and many Hindu friends. As long as we respect one another, there would be no problems…
Pakistan and India can both be so much greater. Imagine an IndoPak Union where you would have commerce flowing freely between the two countries. While both governments maintain sovereignty over their own respective nations, a new council is created called the IndoPak Council to handle all matters. Join the military together and combine all resources, you will have a much stronger nation than an India by itself or a Pakistan by itself. Key is to just have respect for one another
Respected friends
Here I do like to bring to your kind view that India and Pakistan are both nuclear countries, they both have some part of kashmir along with their side. The both sides of government knows the fact that pakistan can’t take away kashmir from india and India can’t take away kashmir from pakistan. So why they are both fighting for. Its quite sure at any cost we don’t let terrorists to take away kashmir. Then why can’t they understand the situation and fight againt the poverty instead of killing people.
To resolve the problem the best idea is that both countries should concentrate on dovelopment of their part of kashmir. Instead of provoking or brainwashing people to become jedhais and terrorists to create problem in their own country and other countries.
Being a Pakistani, I think that there may be disputes, enemity, mistrusts among govts and Political leaders of both countries but the people of both countries want sincerely the peace and good relations b/w the two countries. I suggest that without going in past, we the Pakistani first should work sincerely for development of our country, in econimic, social, educations, health and other issues which we are facing ourselves. It does not seem right that with such weak postion (both national/international) we can compete with india, which with many major problems in their own country is progressing on all above grounds and forums.
I also request our indian friends(common people) that we the pakistani people are not against india, in fact we have a common past of friendship and relations, so please help us by forcing your govt. and we force our govt. to make a good and firm relations of friendship and to fight against terrirism and culprits who are killing common people of both sides .
I end with this ;
UN KA JO KAAM HAI VOH EHL-E-SIYASAT JAANEIN
MERA PAIGHAM MOHABBAT HAI JAHAN TAK POHNCHE
Musharraf Husain
Dear All,
i am a avid reader of dawn and have always been witness to this blame game.i live and work in dubai where a lot of my colleugues are pakistanis….we openly debate abt major issues which both countries stand to face with respect to each other.i think a common mans thinking in both countries is fuelled to just hate each other.i was sceptical abt workin with pakistanis before i landed in dubai…..but my entire perception has changed after having shared gr8 moments with them.
its all abt humans and humanity……guys be it india or pakistan.
The Indian electronic and print media should stop exaggerating stories/theories about what’s happening in the nieghbourhood; would pave the way for peace process.
I am Indian…and proud to be one!! But, Partition for me comes from the history books. One can’t change history and neither can one justify or condone it.
However, people in both countries seem to be living in the past. Let us not try to change history. Let’s move on ahead. Pakistan has much to gain with a friendly, economically stronger India by it’s side. India too, has much to gain with a neighbor it can trust and rely on. Both peoples bond wonderfully well, the moment they are out of their respective borders.
Kashmir is and has been the thorn in the side! Put Kashmir on the back-burner for a while. Why is a 62 year old issue continuing to hurt all of us?
Open up the borders, talk trade, commerce and other issues that concern and affect the ordinary populace.
With all those good accomplishments, India has to decide which direction to move on. Under the impending issue of Kashmir and the way it has been handled leaves big scar on the biggest democracy in the world. It is hard to imagine the leadership who believe in democracy wants to continue its occupation and keep people in that area under siege depriving them their right for plebiscite as per the UN resolution. I would say they should even be given a third option ie instead of joining India or Pakistan, if they want Independence. I firmly believe once this lingering problem is resolved, for which people on both sides has to work hard, their would be a new era in the region that would surpass development and progress that is been seen as a result of EU. Leadership and people on both the sides should sincerely work to do the right thing. Derailing such a process can not be an option.
Relations Between states rely on mutual trust and understanding. Both the countries should learn lesson from the past. Peace in this region depends on the normal and friendly relationship of the neighboring countries. War is not the only solution. Both the governments should start dialogue and negotiation.
I read an interesting article once. It compared India and US. The article basically said that in India differences between people are perpetuated while in the US they are abolished. For example in India voting still happens along religion, region and caste lines. In the US people vote on values and ability. I’m sure there are exceptions in both countries but the make up of the political system says a lot.
Having moved to the US last year I have the opportunity to actually see this happen first hand. Especially during last year’s election.
Longer term I see India and Pakistan also doing well if they move away from religion, region and caste to a more values and morals based society. Both countries have a lot of history together and its time to move on from the past. Even if you look at India right now its more like a mini-Europe. North Indians are very different from South Indians. But they manage to live in the same country in harmony (atleast in the private sector) because they value the same things – progress. That is one reason why the private sector has done well in India. It does not matter who you are if you can deliver results. Unfortunately, in the political system this historical baggage still matters. How many in Pakistan see a Hindu becoming the PM/President if he/she is the best person for the job? Similarly, how many in India would like to see Sonia Gandhi becoming PM?
For 62 odd years, we Pakistanis have been INDIA bashing, weather its our mosques or our community inner circles. we have happily aped the Indians in many areas but still consider ourselves very different. We have been preaching have about the indian muslims weather at home or in overseas. But today I feel the indian muslims are far better than us. atleast they have no one bombingh their masjids or killing their mullas as in pakistan.
@Arshad Ali,
thanks….at least somebody in Pakistan has understood that they have been just used by foriegn powers against their neighbour.
Supporting, extremist groups in Afghanistan against USSR was the biggest mistake!
Let us not discuss history of bloody partition, we can’t revert back, let us accept the existence of two sovereign countries- India and Pakistan!! Believe me no one in India want to conquer any part of Pakistan, i just don’t understand why some people in Pakistan are threaten of India.
The only solution to Kashmir issue is to accepting LOC as the international border between India and Pakistan. Pakistan should take over all extremist elements (not only in swat
but also in POK(or Azad Kashmir whatever u want to say) and simultaneously Indian army should be pulled out of Indian Kashmir as there is won’t be any threat of terrorism.
Well History says it all. I’m from Kashmir (India) and I’ve seen it all when it started in 1989.
Yes we Kashmiris are unpredictable people and being part of a muslim community, Pakistan has taken undue advantage of this.
Pakistan from the start has a inferiority complex, India may not be perfect but with History on its side and a sound centrist leadership, it’s progressing and has a great promise of being a superpower- Education, Health, Economy, –look great. Please no comparision with Pakistan, whose leadership is still failing to see reality and work with India as an Elder brother. At the same time India needs to prove its leadership by assisting and helping Pakistan out of this crisis.
I being an Indian urge my government to assist Pakistan and provide assistance to IDPs of Swat and other areas. How can we be happy and enjoy our prosperity if our neighbor is in pain ?
As long as the pak army is not answerable to the genuinly elected Government, ther will be no peace.
Pakistan army officers live in Mougale Azam type luxury with countless perks. When they retire they are given chushy non productive government jobs again with alot of perks. Indians who spend far more on defence are far more accontable to the civilians and their equivelents live far more frugally.
Now for the Pakistan army to maintain this princely life style, They need an enemy!! They are highly corrupt and keep swallowing the aid given to them for
1- Consolidating their Army
2- to stash away billions in Swiss banks part of which is shared with equally corroupt Civilan government crooks
Indians by coparison may not be more virtous, good etc but they are not fooled by their Army which does not have such a tight grip on the people
India is working hard to be recognized as a developed and progressive country and not any longer as a underdeveloped, poor, 3rd world country. We have a real worry about China being considered as a potential super power ( economic & military ).
Our current president Pratibha Patil and previously Dr. Abdul Kalam have given us a dream to realize India to be developed country which is corruption and poverty free by the year 2020. We should as Inidan citizen not be threatened by any endless export of terrorism by pakistan. The ISI and the Military of Pakistan that has adopted terrorism against Inida as its state policy since last more than 20 years, what dialogue are you really going to have with them who terrorize and brutely murder our innocent civilians.
Just leave Afganistan and Pakistan to its fate and work towards building our nation stronger economically and socially. The world will respect and have friendly relation with a progressive country like India and not with Pakistan after its immediate personal interests are sorted out.